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mrincredible
Discussion: Trump Impeachment Investigation

We need a thread that doesn't turn into one of these stupid arguments. Every time these threads degenerate into an argument about the MSM and Jimmy Dore and all that other crap we lose sight of the actual issues being discussed. Nan turns every one of these threads into her argument and we let it happen.

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PVW
Discussion: Trump Impeachment Investigation

The charge against Trump is that he was seeking a corrupt quid pro quo, where Congressionally-approved aid and public White House support for the Ukrainian government would be granted on condition of Ukraine helping Trump dig up dirt on a political rival.

The rough transcript the WH released largely backs this up, and additional witnesses and documentation have supported this.

As RFA noted, ambassadors serve at "the pleasure of the president." Yovanovitch's testimony here is about further illuminating what the "pleasure of the president" was in Ukraine. Her testimony further bolsters the understanding that it was the corrupt quid pro quo described above.

Trump isn't facing impeachment because he fired an ambassador, but Yovanovitch's firing strengthens the evidence that his reasons were corrupt.

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bub
Discussion: You can't even get decent Chinese Food in this lousy town anymore.

Not a huge fan of Chinese food but we like China Chalet in Florham Park. FWIW, it always has an overwhelmingly Asian crowd and can be very crowded on weekend nights.  Doubt it delivers this way though.

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dave
Discussion: Ellen DeGeneres and Dubya

*Contains offensive language.

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Morganna
Discussion: The Uncaged Bird - Water is for the birds

mumstheword said:

 Me neither, and I'm down the shore.  Took the feeders in yesterday to clean for next year.  This season went very fast.

 Me too, I just bought suet cakes for the chilly weather. Bird feeders are up all year long, bird baths filled with water, so important particularly with this dry weather.

And believe it or not even yesterday their was a pool party!These are more from a couple of weeks ago.

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njcanuck
Discussion: You can't even get decent Chinese Food in this lousy town anymore.

Perhaps you should move. Hong Kong offers more choice and they have a robust citizen - mayor dialogue.

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drummerboy
Discussion: What drives the anti-anti-Trump left?

terp complained that no one was dealing with the details of what the anti-anti-trumpers are writing (not really true, there just haven't been any posts about that in this thread)

I'll outsource this one to Scott Lemieux

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I give Matt Taibbi this, he’s not going to let any mere facts interfere with his thoughts about how only the Deep State can melt steel beams:

I’ve lived through a few coups. They’re insane, random, and terrifying, like watching sports, except your political future depends on the score.

The kickoff begins when a key official decides to buck the executive. From that moment, government becomes a high-speed head-counting exercise. Who’s got the power plant, the airport, the police in the capital? How many department chiefs are answering their phones? Who’s writing tonight’s newscast?

When the KGB in 1991 tried to reassume control of the crumbling Soviet Union by placing Mikhail Gorbachev under arrest and attempting to seize Moscow, logistics ruled. Boris Yeltsin’s crew drove to the Russian White House in ordinary cars, beating KGB coup plotters who were trying to reach the seat of Russian government in armored vehicles. A key moment came when one of Yeltsin’s men, Alexander Rutskoi – who two years later would himself lead a coup against Yeltsin – prevailed upon a Major in a tank unit to defy KGB orders and turn on the “criminals.”

We have long been spared this madness in America. Our head-counting ceremony was Election Day. We did it once every four years.

That’s all over, in the Trump era.

[…]

My discomfort in the last few years, first with Russiagate and now with Ukrainegate and impeachment, stems from the belief that the people pushing hardest for Trump’s early removal are more dangerous than Trump. Many Americans don’t see this because they’re not used to waking up in a country where you’re not sure who the president will be by nightfall. They don’t understand that this predicament is worse than having a bad president.

I have questions!

  • Does he understand that a “coup” against Donald Trump would require upwards of two dozen Republican senators?
  • Does he understand that in the unlikely event of such a “coup,” the result would be…President Mike Pence?
  • Does he think that literally any removal of a political leader from office is a “coup”? Was it a “coup” when Senate Republicans told Nixon he’d be convicted so he reigned? Is the impeachment power itself illegitimate? What about votes of confidence in the Westminster system? Are elections the only possible form of accountability for any misconduct by a top elected official?
  • Is “Trump’s opposition is worse than Trump” the point where any distinction between “anti-anti-Trump” and “supports Trump” becomes meaningless?

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