Why is Maplewood Court 90% Black defendants? Maplewood = Ferguson?

If you can afford to pay a ticket, you do so and never have to show up in court. If it is stretching your budget and you can't pay on time or if you want to challenge it, then you end up in court. So while the observation is interesting, it shouldn't be considered a representation of police activity.

A difficult topic, tempers flair easily... but an important one to reflect on, to act on... to oppose and be opposed while maintaining a polite tone is quite hard sometimes. lets not try to get polarized

A dear friend sent this to me months ago... glad I kept it!

This is a completely fascinating description of the very peculiar St. Louis suburbs. Really helpful context about what makes it both the same as everywhere else, but oh so much worse.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2014/09/03/how-st-louis-county-missouri-profits-from-poverty/

I am white, as is my husband, and we have gotten tickets for right on red at Baker/Valley (hard to suddenly not do that after 14 years of doing that!), and an expired registration in his case.

I am the first to use appropriate terminology when dealing with human beings, particularly since my brother is mentally ill. Don't like to hear people say: crazy, nuts, insane.

But, I use Black in everyday conversation all the time, with both Whites and Blacks that I know.

Reactions I receive: None

I had the unfortunate opportunity to visit the fine Maplewood court recently for a traffic ticket and while I did not do a headcount I was not by a long shot the only Caucasian there.

When I worked for a law school, we had a chapter of the Black Law Students Association (BLSA). I wondered why it wasn't called the African American Law Students Association, and it was explained to me that quite a few members, because of their ethnic or cultural or national origin, were more comfortable identifying as "Black" than as "African American."

Student_Council said:

knowlton said:

Blacks is an acceptable term. I have a Black friend who refuses to be called African American.

I don't think 'Blacks' as a noun is a generally acceptable term in the year 2015. IMO it's akin to calling women broads or dames.
Your friend may hold an opinion but that's just one person.
If you really think it is acceptable, try using it in everyday conversation and report back on what reaction(s) you get.

The lastist I heard, some ----- people preferred the term, "black." Seems the reasoning was that other terms at the time were considered to be made up by whites or were not an adequate notation of the race or racial characteristics. Other terms were plain derogatory.

I do not know what other ----- people prefer to be called.

Your advice would be appreciated.

Me? Personally, I prefer to be called a Honky. It sounds neat. Cracker, Mr. Charlie or peckerwood, not so much. (Especially, not peckerwood). But that's just me and how I feel about it.

In Mexican restaurants, Gringo is an O.K. descriptive for me, too.

Anyone else?

In general I prefer not to label people by their racial or ethnic background. But when it does come up, I am never sure how people of African descent prefer to referred to, and I have been embarrassed to ask. I don't want to offend anyone. Input would be appreciated.

Comparing Maplewood to Ferguson is ridiculous... somehow I really doubt the OP has ever been to Ferguson...

I have been told that many of the black people in Maplewood do not consider themselves African-American because they (or their ancestors) came to America from Haiti or other Caribbean islands.

Also, I have a friend who lives here but is African (not African American; he was born in South Africa and that is his citizenship.) He is most certainly black, but it would be erroneous to call him African-American because he is not American.

I live in the St. Louis area. I grew up in Maplewood, return there regularly, and keep somewhat abreast of the news. Seaweed -- Have you ever been to Ferguson? There are many facts about Ferguson that the recent spotlight has brought out in the news, including in the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, that were news to me. But there are also stereotypes about Ferguson that have crept into reporting that have not been corrected or pointed out.

If anyone has any questions, I'll do my best to answer. And it's not completely out of the realm of possibility that there might be similarities between Ferguson and Maplewood, or their respective court systems.

Maplewood ≠ Ferguson ... OP = Moron

I have been there too for traffic issues, and that was not my observation or experience. I can't say more than that, and I don't think it makes sense to draw conclusions based on my limited experiences.

First question to ask is what percent of our operating revenue is derived from municipal fines? In Ferguson it is about 20 percent. I'm thinking my taxes would be a lot lower if that were the case here.

sarahzm said:

I was in Maplewood Municipal Court last spring contesting a ticket. Had to go twice. Yes, the vast majority of people were for minor traffic violations but the racial make up was a mix.

My experience as well. Actually, it was more white than non-white.

1.15%

RobinM2 said:

First question to ask is what percent of our operating revenue is derived from municipal fines? In Ferguson it is about 20 percent. I'm thinking my taxes would be a lot lower if that were the case here.

Please, let's not go down that road. Law enforcement needs to be in the business of enforcing the law, not raising revenue.

Which my figure above proves. Clearly they're not good businessmen, thankfully.

tom said:

RobinM2 said:

First question to ask is what percent of our operating revenue is derived from municipal fines? In Ferguson it is about 20 percent. I'm thinking my taxes would be a lot lower if that were the case here.

Please, let's not go down that road. Law enforcement needs to be in the business of enforcing the law, not raising revenue.

Not sure what road you think I was going down, but if we are generating 20% of our operating revenue from municipal fines, that would be very very bad and then we should start asking hard questions. I just doubt our Muncipal Court is generating anything close to that. The fact so much of Fergusons operating revenue was coming from these fines is what makes it corrupt.

A moron? I'm a lot of things, but not a moron.

Yes, my title was inflammatory and sensationalist, but I'm a believer in watching government institutions at every turn. They need to be put on notice that people are watching, especially in NJ.

I don't need to go to Ferguson and surrounding suburbs to know that their court system is grossly discriminatory and immoral.

On to term Black:

My friend said "Black is how Black people identified themselves during the Black Power Movement. The PC version (African American) was created to minimize the movement."

Knowlton,

Have you been to the Maplewood Municipal Court? If so, what was your experience?
If not, why not visit and come back here and tell us how it went?

bluepool said:

When I worked for a law school, we had a chapter of the Black Law Students Association (BLSA). I wondered why it wasn't called the African American Law Students Association, and it was explained to me that quite a few members, because of their ethnic or cultural or national origin, were more comfortable identifying as "Black" than as "African American."

My sister asked my black friend, who is English, if she's African American.
)

knowlton said:

A moron? I'm a lot of things, but not a moron.

Yes, my title was inflammatory and sensationalist, but I'm a believer in watching government institutions at every turn. They need to be put on notice that people are watching, especially in NJ.

I don't need to go to Ferguson and surrounding suburbs to know that their court system is grossly discriminatory and immoral.

In addition to being inflammatory and sensationalist, your title seems to be grossly incorrect. It turns out your information is second hand. You weren't even there.

So while your status as a moron may be disputable by some, I can think of some other not too flattering monikers that might be appropriate as well.

why the name calling? not very condusive to dialougue

There are ten Commandments of Rational Debate, a few that we should maybe think on here…

Though shall not attack the person’s character, but the argument itself.
Though shall not misrepresent or exaggerate a person’s argument in order to make them easier to attack.
Though shall not reduce the argument down to only two possibilities when there is a clear middle ground.
Though shall not argue that because of our ignorance, the claim must be true or false.
Though shall not assume that “this” follows “that”, when “it” has no logical connection.

I feel the need to repeat...

lindajpetrosgouin said:

A difficult topic, tempers flair easily... but an important one to reflect on, to act on... to oppose and be opposed while maintaining a polite tone is quite hard sometimes. lets not try to get polarized

A dear friend sent this to me months ago... glad I kept it!

This is a completely fascinating description of the very peculiar St. Louis suburbs. Really helpful context about what makes it both the same as everywhere else, but oh so much worse.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2014/09/03/how-st-louis-county-missouri-profits-from-poverty/

knowlton said:

A moron? I'm a lot of things, but not a moron.

Yes, my title was inflammatory and sensationalist, but I'm a believer in watching government institutions at every turn. They need to be put on notice that people are watching, especially in NJ.

I don't need to go to Ferguson and surrounding suburbs to know that their court system is grossly discriminatory and immoral.

Equating Maplewood to Ferguson based on "your friends" account of who showed up to traffic court is inflammatory, sensationalist, and MORONIC. I am a believer in watching government institutions as well, but when you conflate something like Ferguson to Maplewood moving violation night, you are undermining efforts to improve situations like Ferguson by making such a ridiculous comparison.

I didn't equate, I posed a question.

She has been there on three separate occasions, and they were taking all types of cases, not just traffic. On each of her visits, she stated that the vast majority were Black citizens.

maybe give a glance at the article I posted...? perhaps take a moment to ponder a little longer on the point the poster is trying to make, and try to take note that the use of inflammatory words was acknowledged, I think we can move from that point since you are, in essence, in agreement.

I think the article will be interesting to you since you're so passionate on the topic. I would genuinely like to get your thoughts on it after you've read through it...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2014/09/03/how-st-louis-county-missouri-profits-from-poverty/

Frank_the_Tank said:

knowlton said:

A moron? I'm a lot of things, but not a moron.

Yes, my title was inflammatory and sensationalist, but I'm a believer in watching government institutions at every turn. They need to be put on notice that people are watching, especially in NJ.

I don't need to go to Ferguson and surrounding suburbs to know that their court system is grossly discriminatory and immoral.

Equating Maplewood to Ferguson based on "your friends" account of who showed up to traffic court is inflammatory, sensationalist, and MORONIC. I am a believer in watching government institutions as well, but when you conflate something like Ferguson to Maplewood moving violation night, you are undermining efforts to improve situations like Ferguson by making such a ridiculous comparison.

So from your sample of one individual, we have here a sample of many to counter it and a host of explanations whh the comparison is far, far from apt. Seems like luch ado about zilch.