Who Meddled more Putin or Trump? The Collusion Thread visits Venezuela

Which one exposes who killed Seth Rich?

paulsurovell said:

The GOP drops two "bombshells" to challenge the Dems' Russia narrative: "Secret Society" reported by "FBI informant" and "FBI frame-up of Donald Trump." The FBI as sacred cow is no more.

South_Mountaineer said:

I already posted on the "hashtag" thread about how I realized what your posting style is trying to do, including about your reaction when others point to your "Fox-talk".  I guess your post below is another "avoiding the point" post.

paulsurovell said:

South_Mountaineer said:

Yes, he's definitely "trolling".  He posted, not even without comment, but with something that could be read as an endorsement.  Then he "backs away", in a later post ("I posted them to bring the thread up to speed on the state of play in what has become two competing narratives of the collusion story.")  If you post sleazy Fox content without comment or stating up front how sleazy it is, that looks like you're joining their side.

Your deployment of "nohero-talk" is very impressive.

Gee, I pointed out your "nohero-talk" as a compliment.

I didn't comment on the rest of your post because I generally don't comment on absurdities, like your statement here  -- that I "backed away" from a comment that had no comment.

I really hope that that secret society has no Jewish members.

LOST said:

I really hope that that secret society has no Jewish members.

How can it not?

David Graham at The Atlantic treading some of the same ground as this thread. Nut graf:

Their critique is built, with a range of sincerity, on an argument about the FBI being untrustworthy, scheming, and prone to exacting revenge on political opponents. The critique draws its force from the fact that this has, in fact, historically been true of the Bureau—yet many of its proponents have clearly dubious motives or have forfeited the right to any presumption of truth. This conflict, with flawed actors on both sides, presents an epistemic quandary for a sincere observer: How can you place your faith in either side?

And his conclusion:

There’s no easy conclusion here. There is at this point ample evidence of Trump team members having questionable contacts with Russia both before and after the election; two of them have pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI about those contacts. There’s enough evidence to warrant further investigation along several lines, and only through thorough, fair investigation can allegations be proven or debunked. Still, the requirement to rely on the say-so of an intelligence community that has abused its powers, obfuscated, and retaliated against political opponents must give pause. There’s no comfortable position to be found.

(The Epistemic Quandary of the FBI and Trump)

Foreign meddling in the 2018 election?

http://www.newsweek.com/ksenia-sobchak-putin-rival-national-prayer-breakfast-789799?yptr=yahoo

paulsurovell said:

Foreign meddling in the 2018 election?

http://www.newsweek.com/ksenia-sobchak-putin-rival-national-prayer-breakfast-789799?yptr=yahoo

Well, she's still alive and is, so far, allowed to run. So I doubt she's much of a threat. (And your article suggests she's just another Kremlin stooge.)

Above-board, open support of opposition parties (which this does not even appear to be) is different than stealing another countries private communications and publishing it to try to tilt an election.

dave23 said:

LOST said:

I really hope that that secret society has no Jewish members.

How can it not?

"Are you even going to give out your calendars? Seems kind of depressing. Maybe it should just be the first meeting of the secret society." 

- FBI Lawyer Lisa Page.

ridski said:

dave23 said:

LOST said:

I really hope that that secret society has no Jewish members.

How can it not?

"Are you even going to give out your calendars? Seems kind of depressing. Maybe it should just be the first meeting of the secret society." 


- FBI Lawyer Lisa Page.

Word on the internet is that her real name is Lisa Pagestein.

dave23 said:

paulsurovell said:

Foreign meddling in the 2018 election?

http://www.newsweek.com/ksenia-sobchak-putin-rival-national-prayer-breakfast-789799?yptr=yahoo

Well, she's still alive and is, so far, allowed to run. So I doubt she's much of a threat. (And your article suggests she's just another Kremlin stooge.)

Above-board, open support of opposition parties (which this does not even appear to be) is different than stealing another countries private communications and publishing it to try to tilt an election.

So the problem is not that Russia allegedly supported a political party but that it didn't do it openly?

paulsurovell said:


So the problem is not that Russia allegedly supported a political party but that it didn't do it openly?

Nope, that wasn't the problem.

dave23 said:

ridski said:

dave23 said:

LOST said:

I really hope that that secret society has no Jewish members.

How can it not?

"Are you even going to give out your calendars? Seems kind of depressing. Maybe it should just be the first meeting of the secret society." 


- FBI Lawyer Lisa Page.

Word on the internet is that her real name is Lisa Pagestein.

This sucks. I was hoping to join the secret society, too. I got high scores on the "Only 1 in 50 People Can Pass This Jewish Slang Test. Can You?" test and everything. Now my mother will never be proud of me.

ridski said:

dave23 said:

Word on the internet is that her real name is Lisa Pagestein.

This sucks. I was hoping to join the secret society, too. I got high scores on the "Only 1 in 50 People Can Pass This Jewish Slang Test. Can You?" test and everything. Now my mother will never be proud of me.

Marking the calendar as year 5775 was the first giveaway. Secret Society rookie mistake.

dave23 said:

ridski said:

dave23 said:

Word on the internet is that her real name is Lisa Pagestein.

This sucks. I was hoping to join the secret society, too. I got high scores on the "Only 1 in 50 People Can Pass This Jewish Slang Test. Can You?" test and everything. Now my mother will never be proud of me.

Marking the calendar as year 5775 was the first giveaway. Secret Society rookie mistake.

meshuggah

Apparently the Dutch warned the US repeatedly. Cool spy v. spy stuff.

https://nos.nl/googleamp/artikel/2213767-dutch-intelligence-first-to-alert-u-s-about-russian-hack-of-democratic-party.html?__twitter_impression=true

Page - Strzok texts were recovered yesterday.

Hannity was still telling everyone they were missing this afternoon

ridski said:

Page - Strzok texts were recovered yesterday

Hannity was still telling everyone they were missing this afternoon

Published yesterday at 9:25 pm:

http://insider.foxnews.com/2018/01/24/missing-peter-strzok-text-messages-hannity-exclusive-report-justice-department-recovering

dave23 said:

Apparently the Dutch warned the US repeatedly. Cool spy v. spy stuff.




https://nos.nl/googleamp/artikel/2213767-dutch-intelligence-first-to-alert-u-s-about-russian-hack-of-democratic-party.html?__twitter_impression=true

Is Nieuswsuur part of the MSM?

paulsurovell said:

ridski said:

Page - Strzok texts were recovered yesterday

Hannity was still telling everyone they were missing this afternoon

Published yesterday at 9:25 pm:

http://insider.foxnews.com/2018/01/24/missing-peter-strzok-text-messages-hannity-exclusive-report-justice-department-recovering

Then it’s even more egregious that Hannity is continuing to tell his listeners that they’re missing, no?

BTW, this is where I found that he was doing it.

https://twitter.com/kurteichenwald/status/956634712767893505

ridski said:

paulsurovell said:

ridski said:

Page - Strzok texts were recovered yesterday

Hannity was still telling everyone they were missing this afternoon

Published yesterday at 9:25 pm:

http://insider.foxnews.com/2018/01/24/missing-peter-strzok-text-messages-hannity-exclusive-report-justice-department-recovering

Then it’s even more egregious that Hannity is continuing to tell his listeners that they’re missing, no?

BTW, this is where I found that he was doing it.

https://twitter.com/kurteichenwald/status/956634712767893505

Eichenwald may have a hearing problem:

https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/the-sean-hannity-show/e/53032944?autoplay=true

You can't join the secret society because you've already violated the First Rule of Secret Society. Lisa Page violated the rule so she's probably out now. 

ridski said:

dave23 said:

ridski said:

dave23 said:

LOST said:

I really hope that that secret society has no Jewish members.

How can it not?

"Are you even going to give out your calendars? Seems kind of depressing. Maybe it should just be the first meeting of the secret society." 


- FBI Lawyer Lisa Page.

Word on the internet is that her real name is Lisa Pagestein.

This sucks. I was hoping to join the secret society, too. I got high scores on the "Only 1 in 50 People Can Pass This Jewish Slang Test. Can You?" test and everything. Now my mother will never be proud of me.

Dayenu

paulsurovell said:

ridski said:

paulsurovell said:

ridski said:

Page - Strzok texts were recovered yesterday

Hannity was still telling everyone they were missing this afternoon

Published yesterday at 9:25 pm:

http://insider.foxnews.com/2018/01/24/missing-peter-strzok-text-messages-hannity-exclusive-report-justice-department-recovering

Then it’s even more egregious that Hannity is continuing to tell his listeners that they’re missing, no?

BTW, this is where I found that he was doing it.

https://twitter.com/kurteichenwald/status/956634712767893505

Eichenwald may have a hearing problem:

https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/the-sean-hannity-show/e/53032944?autoplay=true

Duped by Eichenwald yet again? I'm quitting twitter.

Collusion investigation shifts from the Republican to the Democratic Party:

[ Edited to Add: Thread title confirmed ]

Thread title confirmed?  The title is a question - "Who colluded more: Hillary or Trump?" I already provided the answer back on page 1, about an hour and a half after you started this "long thread defending Trump" on July 11:

The right answer is "Trump".

I don't know why this is even a question. 

paulsurovell said:

Collusion investigation shifts from the Republican to the Democratic Party:

[ Edited to Add: Thread title confirmed ]

Addendum to my post above of the Grassley-Graham letter to the DNC, asking for information about

"Christopher Steele's  creation of a series of memos relying largely on Russian government sources to make allegations against Donald Trump and his associates

Similar letters were sent to:

-- Hillary for America (HFA)
-- Former DNC Chair Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz
-- Former DNC Chair Donna Brazile
-- HFA Chair John Podesta
-- HFA Chief Strategist Joel Benenson

https://www.grassley.senate.gov/news/news-releases/grassley-graham-send-batch-letters-related-potential-political-influence-fbigrassley-graham-send-batch-letters-related-potential-political-influence

Muliplying it by 6 doesn't make it a better argument. 

I guess you're saying that Hillary got something from the DNC which got it from the law firm which got it from Fusion which got it from Steele who got it from "Russian government sources" and therefore she's a bigger colluder than Trump. And with a straight face. 

Question - if getting information that started out as from someone who works in the Russian government means Hillary colluded, does that mean that Wikileaks "colluded" with the United States because it got information that started out as from someone who worked for our government?

paulsurovell said:

Addendum to my post above of the Grassley-Graham letter to the DNC, asking for information about

"Christopher Steele's  creation of a series of memos relying largely on Russian government sources to make allegations against Donald Trump and his associates

Similar letters were sent to:

-- Hillary for America (HFA)
-- Former DNC Chair Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz
-- Former DNC Chair Donna Brazile
-- HFA Chair John Podesta
-- HFA Chief Strategist Joel Benenson

https://www.grassley.senate.gov/news/news-releases/grassley-graham-send-batch-letters-related-potential-political-influence-fbigrassley-graham-send-batch-letters-related-potential-political-influence

paulsurovell said:

The GOP drops two "bombshells" to challenge the Dems' Russia narrative: "Secret Society" reported by "FBI informant" and "FBI frame-up of Donald Trump." The FBI as sacred cow is no more.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/1/29/1736458/-Cartoon-Trump-vs-the-Deep-State

At least he didn't say "Democrat party."