The Rose Garden and White House happenings: Listening to voters’ concerns

mtierney said:

Biden messed up the Pledge of Allegiance recently! Also apparently totally forgot the point he was trying to make about the virus (I’ll Try to get the clip). 

Next Tuesday should be interesting...

 holy cow.  that clip was TOTALLY false.  what is wrong with you?

here's the test. mt can apologize for posting nonsense, or clam up like she usually does.

ml1 said:

mtierney said:

Biden messed up the Pledge of Allegiance recently! Also apparently totally forgot the point he was trying to make about the virus (I’ll Try to get the clip). 

Next Tuesday should be interesting...

 what is wrong with you?

 It's a long list.  May i start?

mtierney said:

Biden messed up the Pledge of Allegiance recently!

What Biden said:

“I don’t pledge allegiance to red states of America or blue states of America, I pledge allegiance to the United States of America. One nation, indivisible, under God, for real. I’m running as a proud Democrat, but I’m not going to govern as a Democratic president, I’m going to govern as president.”

You accused nohero of a habit. You’re making a habit of spreading disinformation. Please stop it.

Meanwhile, Trump keeps repeating his boast about getting an award that doesn't exist and that he didn't get.  On top of all that, he can't remember details of his lie, like when it allegedly happened.  

Trump, in Florida, repeats his lie that he was once named "Man of the Year in Michigan." (He says it was "12 years ago." In August, he said it was 11 years ago. In July, he said it was 10 years ago. Last year, he said it was around 10 years before the election.)

— Daniel Dale (@ddale8) September 25, 2020

Whiniest. President. Ever. 

Democrats are Rigging our 2020 Election! pic.twitter.com/1FwrJiuSNY

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) September 25, 2020

Oh, mea culpa! I have offended Biden supporters! When the left twists the news, defames the sitting president, insults any opinion not socialistic, personally attacks the messenger who brings a different attitude here, etc etc., it is OK!

 I am on a roll here: supporting (ie overlooking) looting, destruction of public and private property, demeaning our first responders — police and fire departments — ad infinitum — is acceptable and righteous behavior.

Biden’s 50 years in public life have shown multiple occasions when a bit of incoherence is commented on with the cute word, “gaffe,“  as a coverup. 

50 years is long enough.

Trump’s extended family is an acceptable target, but Hunter gets a pass, so far. Why do you suppose?

mtierney said:

Oh, mea culpa! I have offended Biden supporters! When the left twists the news, defames the sitting president, insults any opinion not socialistic, personally attacks the messenger who brings a different attitude here, etc etc., it is OK!  

The personal attacks against you don’t excuse your own abuses. Just stop it.

mtierney said:

Trump’s extended family is an acceptable target, but Hunter gets a pass, so far. Why do you suppose?

 What position does Hunter have in the Biden campaign? What position would he hold in the Biden administration? What role does he have in administering his father's financial interests? How does this differ from the roles taken by Trump's children?

mtierney said:

Oh, mea culpa! I have offended Biden supporters!

To be more accurate, you posted that was manufactured by the Trump campaign, to be spread on social media. 

If you want a gold star for that, look elsewhere.

PVW said:

mtierney said:

Trump’s extended family is an acceptable target, but Hunter gets a pass, so far. Why do you suppose?

 What position does Hunter have in the Biden campaign? What position would he hold in the Biden administration? What role does he have in administering his father's financial interests? How does this differ from the roles taken by Trump's children?

Along those lines, also not a family pass.

Politics, Money, Siblings: The Ties Between Joe Biden and Valerie Biden Owens (NYT)

DaveSchmidt said:

PVW said:

mtierney said:

Trump’s extended family is an acceptable target, but Hunter gets a pass, so far. Why do you suppose?

 What position does Hunter have in the Biden campaign? What position would he hold in the Biden administration? What role does he have in administering his father's financial interests? How does this differ from the roles taken by Trump's children?

Along those lines, also not a family pass.

Politics, Money, Siblings: The Ties Between Joe Biden and Valerie Biden Owens (NYT)

 Interesting story; actually first time I've learned of Valerie Biden Owens. But, in the context of mtierney's point, it's worth being specific here -- one of the primary charges against people like Jared Kushner, Eric Trump, etc is that they are aiding the president in improperly directing public resources to his own private interests. With Don and Eric running the Trump organization, and Pres. Trump having access to its assets, there's a clear conflict of interest of coordinating American policy to benefit Trump business interests.

The allegation against Hunter Biden is that somehow this is equivalent -- that his serving on the board of Burisma somehow benefited Joe Biden. But there's no evidence for that. It certainly reflects poorly on Hunter Biden, and if he were running for public office would probably be a problem for him, but it's hard to see -- outside of the distorted partisan screeching of Trump supporters -- how this is on the same level of Pres. Trump using his family to enrich himself.

Another charge against Trump's family is that the president and his administration use public resources to benefit not just himself, but his family. For instance, Kelly Ann Conway, in her official capacity, encouraging people to purchase products from Ivanka Trump's business.

Here you can squint and see something more similar to the charge against Hunter Biden, as he clearly benefited from the fact that his father was VP. But Republicans so far have failed to come up with any words or actions by Biden or the Obama administration that steered business Hunter's way. Certainly nothing as explicit as the Conway example I cited above.

So if go ahead and "suppose" as to the difference between Trump's extended family and Biden's, I see quite a few significant differences.

--

ETA -- on reflection, the promotion of Ivanka's products is likely also benefiting Trump personally too. We don't know what financial interest he has in her business.

mtierney said:

Oh, mea culpa! I have offended Biden supporters! When the left twists the news, defames the sitting president, insults any opinion not socialistic, personally attacks the messenger who brings a different attitude here, etc etc., it is OK!

 I am on a roll here: supporting (ie overlooking) looting, destruction of public and private property, demeaning our first responders — police and fire departments — ad infinitum — is acceptable and righteous behavior.

Biden’s 50 years in public life have shown multiple occasions when a bit of incoherence is commented on with the cute word, “gaffe,“  as a coverup. 

50 years is long enough.

Trump’s extended family is an acceptable target, but Hunter gets a pass, so far. Why do you suppose?

 you're on a roll all right.  

You didn't "offend" anyone.  You posted lies and got called out on it.  

PVW said:

 What position does Hunter have in the Biden campaign? What position would he hold in the Biden administration? What role does he have in administering his father's financial interests? How does this differ from the roles taken by Trump's children?

 Follow the money....

mtierney said:

 

PVW said:

 What position does Hunter have in the Biden campaign? What position would he hold in the Biden administration? What role does he have in administering his father's financial interests? How does this differ from the roles taken by Trump's children?

 Follow the money....

I notice the cuff says "Senate report." Why don't you try to up your game and try to post some actual quotes from that report and make an actual argument? You have read the report, right? I'd hate to think you're the kind of person who just mindlessly forwards on ideas that tickle your partisanship without any regard for their substance or veracity...

mtierney said:

 Follow the money....

Good thing Hunter Biden isn't running for president  

ml1 said:

mtierney said:

 Follow the money....

Good thing Hunter Biden isn't running for president  

I still think the idea that Trump's army is accusing Biden and his family of nepotism and corruption is kind of funny. These people are constantly projecting their own dark side, and they are completely blind to the irony of it all.

mtierney said:

 Follow the money....

We would love  to - do you think Presidents should release their taxes?

It is amazing that conservatives are more furious that Biden accidentally said 200 million instead of 200,000 (which was corrected within a few minutes) then they are of 200,000 citizens are actually dead. In fact they celebrate that it's not 2 million.

The insanity of Trump has been ramping up and will get worse as the election nears.

We have discovered the fragility of our democracy by electing someone so inept. I'm glad we have a Trump apologist in here - there many other with similar views throughout the country.

This thread is a prime example of how Trump gets away with it. It's pure volume. As humans, we truly can't keep up with the the reporting on the destruction of our American values a la Trump and cronies.

I am happy Trumpers are speaking out - like Cohen and Mary. I'm also happy Trump put his own words out there via Rage.

jamie said:

We would love  to - do you think Presidents should release their taxes?

 Yes, as a proper vetting procedure by the political parties, prior to nomination and election. Otherwise, what you have is a witch hunt after the fact.

When tax returns are weaponized to weed out “bad apples” , I suggest we make sure all professional representatives and senators be required to release their income taxes —maybe every decade or so. 

mtierney said:

jamie said:

We would love  to - do you think Presidents should release their taxes?

 Yes, as a proper vetting procedure by the political parties, prior to nomination and election. Otherwise, what you have is a witch hunt after the fact.

When tax returns are weaponized to weed out “bad apples” , I suggest we make sure all professional representatives and senators be required to release their income taxes —maybe every decade or so. 

So if you refuse to release them at the time you say they should, continuing to ask for them is a witch hunt?

Marvelous logic!!

Pre-debate excuses readied. Will the international world be able to cope translating stuttering correctly? Will nuance on the world stage be misheard, therefore mistranslated?

I don’t recall this issue being raised in Biden’s previous attempts to win the presidency. The misspeaks were called “gaffes” and got a giggle. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/25/opinion/joe-biden-stutter.html

Note to readers here:  The New York Times article linked in the post below is not about "pre-debate excuses".  The article has nothing to do with the content of the post, other than both are about Joe Biden.

mtierney said:

Pre-debate excuses readied. Will the international world be able to cope translating stuttering correctly? Will nuance on the world stage be misheard, therefore mistranslated?

I don’t recall this issue being raised in Biden’s previous attempts to win the presidency. The misspeaks were called “gaffes” and got a giggle. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/25/opinion/joe-biden-stutter.html

mtierney said:

 Yes, as a proper vetting procedure by the political parties, prior to nomination and election. Otherwise, what you have is a witch hunt after the fact.

When tax returns are weaponized to weed out “bad apples” , I suggest we make sure all professional representatives and senators be required to release their income taxes —maybe every decade or so. 

 Trump discloses less about his finances than any other person in politics.

mtierney said:

I don’t recall this issue being raised in Biden’s previous attempts to win the presidency. The misspeaks were called “gaffes” and got a giggle.

Your awareness is a poor test. There’s a whole section about Biden’s stutter in What It Takes, Richard Ben Cramer’s touchstone best-seller about the 1988 race, and a quick search for “Biden” and “stutter” in a database of national and international news articles for 2007-08 got more than 300 hits. I can affirm it was always well known in Delaware.

I did not realize this until recently, but the house passed a law this summer that grants statehood to Washington DC, making it the 51st state (H.R.51).

So if we win Senate majority (and that is a big IF), is it as simple as the senate voting on this and it is done? That almost sounds too easy to be true.

basil said:

So if we win Senate majority (and that is a big IF), is it as simple as the senate voting on this and it is done? That almost sounds too easy to be true.

It’s a new Congress. Bills don’t carry over.

ETA: Also, the 60-vote threshold to clear a legislative filibuster.

From the discussion above, it’s sounding, to a foreigner, as if none of your elected politicians have to declare all of their financial interests, income, expenditure and taxes so that all of their financial transactions are totally transparent. That seems quite strange in this modern era, given the situation in just about every other democracy. (Admittedly, not all nations’ politicians are honest in their declarations but it used be that the USA lead the way in calling the shonks out.) Have I misunderstood another part of your congressional reporting process?

(I know the long-standing issue re Mr Trump’s taxes. There’s an implication above that other politicians don’t need to declare theirs, either, at any time unless running for President)

joanne said:

Have I misunderstood another part of your congressional reporting process?

Here is a summary of the requirements:

http://www.opensecrets.org/personal-finances/disclosure

Here is Trump’s 2018 filing:

http://pfds.opensecrets.org/N00023864_2018.pdf

Note the wide dollar ranges that, unlike tax filers, disclosure filers are permitted to use. Also, from a FactCheck.org article:

The president claimed that “you get far more” from his legally required financial disclosure forms “than you could ever get from a tax return.” But much of the information one could get from a tax return isn’t in a financial disclosure form, which is designed to reveal financial interests.

We checked in with Thorndike, at Tax Analysts, again on this point. The question, he said, is “more of what?”

“You’re not going to get a statement of net worth or asset value on a tax return,” he said. The financial disclosure form does a much better job of telling you how rich someone is.

But the disclosure form has “no information about the president’s tax behavior,” Thorndike said. The tax returns tell us if and how the president complies with tax laws. With the financial disclosure form, “you’re not getting any sense of how he structured his businesses to minimize his taxes.”

Thanks.

It’s more the others I was wondering about. I appreciate linked references. (As explained, I know that Mr Trump keeps ‘delaying’ his responsibilities in this respect)