The Rose Garden and White House happenings: Listening to voters’ concerns
lord_pabulum said:
drummerboy said:Where do you see that I argue that? In your strange dictionary?
Are you actually going to argue that a person trying to decide whether or not to vote for Donald Trump has any functioning brain cells? Or that they know anything about politics other than the names of the two parties?
Be my guest.
Do you have some other characterization or description of today's undecided voter that you think is more accurate?
Wonder what Biden’s shoe size is...
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/19/us/politics/biden-segregationists.html
Already underway in Maplewood/South Orange?
Note added: link also posted on TomR thread
I didn't know that Maplewood or South Orange had changed any single-family zoned areas to multi-family. Willing to be corrected if I'm misinformed.
lord_pabulum said:
undecided
the depth of your analysis is breathtaking
drummerboy said:
lord_pabulum said:the depth of your analysis is breathtaking
undecided
At least I know what analysis is. Your analysis is that all undecided voters are morons, which is realy an opinion. You need to learn the difference.
Trump is like syphilis. Either you have it or you don’t. There is no “undecided”.
Klinker said:
Trump is like syphilis. Either you have it or you don’t. There is no “undecided”.
But there is "you have it but you don't know it yet"
lord_pabulum said:
drummerboy said:At least I know what analysis is. Your analysis is that all undecided voters are morons, which is realy an opinion. You need to learn the difference.
lord_pabulum said:the depth of your analysis is breathtaking
undecided
uh huh. so an "opinion" can't be informed by an "analysis"?
I've shown you the analysis, albeit briefly, which leads to my opinion. That's how I get my "opinions". I don't just pull them out of my butt.
But I guess I'm doing it wrong.
drummerboy said:
uh huh. so an "opinion" can't be informed by an "analysis"?
I've shown you the analysis, albeit briefly, which leads to my opinion. That's how I get my "opinions". I don't just pull them out of my butt.
But I guess I'm doing it wrong.
What analysis did you perform for the basis of your opinion? Watching CNN and FOX news doesn't count.
So now that we are playing war games with Iran, the acting(!) secretary of defense (shanahan) is resigning because he is afraid it is going to come out that his son beat up his wife with a baseball bat. Other than the fact that this is probably the most effective way to draw attention to that fact, and other than the fact that apparently nobody (including himself) thought this through when he became acting defense secretary, now we have an acting-acting-defense secretary?
To quote my brother klinker: "only the best people"
Klinker said:
Any thoughts on Caligula's military kerfuffle last night?
The last person who spoke to him must have said "Jimmy Carter, Desert One".
Also, it's a reason for Congress to pass "no, you don't have authorization to blow anything up in Iran".
nohero said:
Klinker said:The last person who spoke to him must have said "Jimmy Carter, Desert One".
Any thoughts on Caligula's military kerfuffle last night?
Also, it's a reason for Congress to pass "no, you don't have authorization to blow anything up in Iran".
Why not? they brought down one of our drones, a commander in chief needs to be able to respond to that shouldn't he?
Klinker said:
Any thoughts on Caligula's military kerfuffle last night?
According to Reuters (see link below) it played out as follows:
1) Trump ordered an attack
2) He then sent notice to Iran via Oman that an attack was imminent but that he would call it off if they came to the table to negotiate
3) Iran said: no thanks, but if you attack us you will suffer the consequences
4) He then called off the attack
Like North Korea, the Iranians are running circles around us.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-pulls-back-launch-military-040242565.html
basil said:
Why not? they brought down one of our drones, a commander in chief needs to be able to respond to that shouldn't he?
there is a dispute over whether or not the drone was in Iranian air space. Only an idiot would accept our military's denial at face value. It's possible the right answer is for us not to provoke any more responses.
ml1 said:
basil said:there is a dispute over whether or not the drone was in Iranian air space. Only an idiot would accept our military's denial at face value. It's possible the right answer is for us not to provoke any more responses.
Why not? they brought down one of our drones, a commander in chief needs to be able to respond to that shouldn't he?
The fact that Trump says it was in Iranian space is proof that it was not. What more do people want, a statement from Sarah Huckleberry Sanders?
In any case, I think Basil was being facetious.
Klinker said:
The fact that Trump says it was in Iranian space is proof that it was not. What more do people want, a statement from Sarah Huckleberry Sanders?
In any case, I think Basil was being facetious.
really? Seems like a legitimate question
Maybe. The whole thing just strikes me as an absurdist nightmare. People are going to die because this President likes to finger paint with his own feces.
he claims he called off a retaliatory strike because it was disproportional to shooting down an unmanned drone. If that's true, Trump's refusal to go to war with Iran (at least at this time) will be the first thing I agree with him doing.
I think he got a call from Putin. The idea that the man understands a multi syllabic word like "disproportionate" is self refuting.
Klinker said:
Trump is like syphilis. Either you have it or you don’t. There is no “undecided”.
Tribalism is the state of being organized by, or advocating for, tribes or tribal lifestyles. Human evolution has primarily occurred in small groups, as opposed to mass societies, and humans naturally maintain a social network. In popular culture, tribalism may also refer to a way of thinking or behaving in which people are loyal to their social group above all else, or, derogatorily, a type of discrimination or animosity based upon group differences.
this certainly seems plausible:
Considering Trump's behavior on Thursday, it's possible he is simply playing out some elaborate "Madman" kabuki. But I'm afraid it's even more likely that he was watching Tucker Carlson, who argued on his Fox News show that war with Iran wouldn't be popular with the Republican base. (If so: Thank you, Tucker.)
https://www.salon.com/2019/06/21/trump-was-nearly-lured-into-war-this-week-and-the-hawks-around-him-are-still-hoping/
proeasdf said:
Klinker said:Tribalism is the state of being organized by, or advocating for, tribes or tribal lifestyles. Human evolution has primarily occurred in small groups, as opposed to mass societies, and humans naturally maintain a social network. In popular culture, tribalism may also refer to a way of thinking or behaving in which people are loyal to their social group above all else, or, derogatorily, a type of discrimination or animosity based upon group differences.
Trump is like syphilis. Either you have it or you don’t. There is no “undecided”.
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribalism
you mean like the deplorables?
Klinker said:
My tribe doesn't lock kids in cages.
Also "not my tribe":
Every weekday, he sits in the same spot at Culver’s restaurant — the corner booth near the Kwik Trip — and begins his daily intake of news from xenophobic and conspiratorial sites, such as JihadWatch.org, and articles with titles like “Lifting the Veil on the ‘Islamophobia’ Hoax.” On Thursdays, Mr. Palmer hosts a group called Concerned Community Citizens, or C-Cubed, which he formed to pressure local officials over the Muslim refugees. Mr. Palmer said at a recent meeting he viewed them as innately less intelligent than the “typical” American citizen, as well as a threat.
…
In this predominantly white region of central Minnesota, the influx of Somalis, most of whom are Muslim, has spurred the sort of demographic and cultural shifts that President Trump and right-wing conservatives have stoked fears about for years.
I cannot think of an appropriate way to "empathize with" or "understand" people like this. They are starting at a place that may be too far gone for that.
drummerboy said:
proeasdf said:you mean like the deplorables?
Klinker said:Tribalism is the state of being organized by, or advocating for, tribes or tribal lifestyles. Human evolution has primarily occurred in small groups, as opposed to mass societies, and humans naturally maintain a social network. In popular culture, tribalism may also refer to a way of thinking or behaving in which people are loyal to their social group above all else, or, derogatorily, a type of discrimination or animosity based upon group differences.
Trump is like syphilis. Either you have it or you don’t. There is no “undecided”.
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribalism
I believe that the HRC term is "basket of deplorables." See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basket_of_deplorables
In our current world of social media echo-chambers, we (as a people, both left and right) are becoming increasingly more vulnerable to tribal convictions and influences. My understanding is that almost half of Americans now get all their news from Facebook ("FB")(information digitally targeted to align with that FB viewer's interests). As a consequence, that FB “information” reflects that particular viewer's existing biases, and thereby reinforces such biases far more than it informs.
The HRC speech of 09092016 literally calls the basket-of-deplorables-tribe as the "other." See abridged text of 09092016 sppech. This type of behavior makes for exciting, explosive politics but exacerbates polarization. There are some who take the POV that we are currently enduring a cold civil war here in the US. IMHO, the solution is not more tribalism.
============================================
Abrdiged text from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basket_of_deplorables
At an LGBT campaign fundraising event in New York City on September 9, Clinton gave a speech and said the following:[8]
"I know there are only 60 days left to make our case – and don't get complacent; don't see the latest outrageous, offensive, inappropriate comment and think, "Well, he's done this time." We are living in a volatile political environment.
You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump's supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. (Laughter/applause) Right? (Laughter/applause) They're racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic – Islamophobic – you name it. And unfortunately, there are people like that. And he has lifted them up. He has given voice to their websites that used to only have 11,000 people – now have 11 million. He tweets and retweets their offensive hateful mean-spirited rhetoric. Now, some of those folks – they are irredeemable, but thankfully, they are not America.
But the "other" basket – the other basket – and I know because I look at this crowd I see friends from all over America here: I see friends from Florida and Georgia and South Carolina and Texas and — as well as, you know, New York and California — but that "other" basket of people are people who feel the government has let them down, the economy has let them down, nobody cares about them, nobody worries about what happens to their lives and their futures; and they're just desperate for change. It doesn't really even matter where it comes from. They don't buy everything he says, but — he seems to hold out some hope that their lives will be different. They won't wake up and see their jobs disappear, lose a kid to heroin, feel like they're in a dead-end. Those are people we have to understand and empathize with as well."
— Hillary Clinton, CBS News[9]
Only the best people....