Tulsi: Trump: Stop hiding Saudi role in 911 and protecting Al Qaeda
Sort of like billionaires like Pierre Omidyar who fund people like Greenwald? Should we start asking where all of your sources get their money?
paulsurovell said:
jamie said:I haven't read it. One of the ironies about Max Blumenthal is that his father Sid, is one of Hillary's closest friends and a Wikileaks email revealed that Sid was recommending to Hillary that she read some of Max's stuff because it was really great (or maybe just interesting). Hillary caught flak from the right wing on that. Another irony is that Sid has been implicated indirectly in the Steele dossier saga.
Sorry to get off the subject but just wondering if you're a fan's of Blumenthal's book, Goliath?
So you have no qualms over his anti-Israel stances?
jamie said:
paulsurovell said:So you have no qualms over his anti-Israel stances?
jamie said:I haven't read it. One of the ironies about Max Blumenthal is that his father Sid, is one of Hillary's closest friends and a Wikileaks email revealed that Sid was recommending to Hillary that she read some of Max's stuff because it was really great (or maybe just interesting). Hillary caught flak from the right wing on that. Another irony is that Sid has been implicated indirectly in the Steele dossier saga.
Sorry to get off the subject but just wondering if you're a fan's of Blumenthal's book, Goliath?
Give me the stance and I'll give you my opinion.
jamie said:
Sort of like billionaires like Pierre Omidyar who fund people like Greenwald? Should we start asking where all of your sources get their money?
Yes. Money is used to influence pundits, think tanks, journalists, politicians, anyone who helps shape public opinion.
Keep your eyes especially on Saudi Arabia, right-wing foundations, defense contractors, and neocon billionaires like Sheldon Adelson.
http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/support/supporters
https://www.vox.com/2016/3/21/11275354/saudi-arabia-gulf-washington
paulsurovell said:
jamie said:Give me the stance and I'll give you my opinion.
paulsurovell said:So you have no qualms over his anti-Israel stances?
jamie said:I haven't read it. One of the ironies about Max Blumenthal is that his father Sid, is one of Hillary's closest friends and a Wikileaks email revealed that Sid was recommending to Hillary that she read some of Max's stuff because it was really great (or maybe just interesting). Hillary caught flak from the right wing on that. Another irony is that Sid has been implicated indirectly in the Steele dossier saga.
Sorry to get off the subject but just wondering if you're a fan's of Blumenthal's book, Goliath?
Blumenthal regularly has equated Israel with the Islamic state. Here's one stance I found:
So if they can’t say that ISIL is WORSE than the Jewish state, they’ve decided that the best way to vilify Israel these days is to make clear that the nation’s behavior is surely the equivalent of bloodthirsty beheaders.
And thus, in a catchy way to equate the two, the hashtag #JSIL was born on Twitter, presumably standing for Jewish State in the Levant.
The proud papa of the hashtag is anti-Zionist activist and writer Max Blumenthal, who created it over the weekend, and its mother is Electronic Intifada contributor Rania Khalek, who has been promoting it on Twitter in a stated effort to get the hashtag to trend. The duo has been producing tweets like this:
Like #ISIL, the Jewish State (#JSIL) recruits indoctrinated foreigners to displace indigenous people http://t.co/BBj82PWxcO #JSILisISIL
Hier said of Blumental, “we judge him by what he wrote. He crossed the line into outright anti-Semitism.”
According to the Wiesenthal list, Blumenthal uses chapter titles in his book Goliath to equate Israel with the Nazi regime. Chapters in his book are entitled “Summer Camp of Destruction,” “Date with the Devil,” “There Is No Dream,” “The Concentration Camp,” “The Night of Broken Glass” and “How to Kill Goyim and Influence People.” The center noted that “he quotes approvingly characterizations of Israelis soldiers as ‘Judeo-Nazis.’”
Dr. Eric Alterman, a prominent professor of English in New York City, wrote that Blumenthal’s “book could have been a selection of a hypothetical Hamas Book of the Month Club.” Alterman penned his critical review of Blumenthal’s book in the left-wing magazine The Nation, where he is a columnist.
jamie said:
paulsurovell said:Blumenthal regularly has equated Israel with the Islamic state. Here's one stance I found:
jamie said:Give me the stance and I'll give you my opinion.
paulsurovell said:So you have no qualms over his anti-Israel stances?
jamie said:I haven't read it. One of the ironies about Max Blumenthal is that his father Sid, is one of Hillary's closest friends and a Wikileaks email revealed that Sid was recommending to Hillary that she read some of Max's stuff because it was really great (or maybe just interesting). Hillary caught flak from the right wing on that. Another irony is that Sid has been implicated indirectly in the Steele dossier saga.
Sorry to get off the subject but just wondering if you're a fan's of Blumenthal's book, Goliath?
So if they can’t say that ISIL is WORSE than the Jewish state, they’ve decided that the best way to vilify Israel these days is to make clear that the nation’s behavior is surely the equivalent of bloodthirsty beheaders.And thus, in a catchy way to equate the two, the hashtag #JSIL was born on Twitter, presumably standing for Jewish State in the Levant.The proud papa of the hashtag is anti-Zionist activist and writer Max Blumenthal, who created it over the weekend, and its mother is Electronic Intifada contributor Rania Khalek, who has been promoting it on Twitter in a stated effort to get the hashtag to trend. The duo has been producing tweets like this:Like #ISIL, the Jewish State (#JSIL) recruits indoctrinated foreigners to displace indigenous people http://t.co/BBj82PWxcO #JSILisISIL
I'll take a look at this later, but before commenting, I'll note that the Weisenthal Center ranked President Obama at the top of its list for committing the worst anti-semitic, anti-Israeli act in 2016:
The US abstention from a recent vote against Israeli settlements at the UN Security Council topped the Simon Wiesenthal Center’s annual list released Tuesday of the 10 worst outbreaks of Jew-hatred and anti-Israel incidents. The Jewish human rights organization ranked the Obama administration’s move as the top case, charging that it erased Jewish history.
“The most stunning 2016 UN attack on Israel was facilitated by President [Barack] Obama when the US abstained on a UN Security Council resolution condemning Israel for settlement construction. It reversed decades-long US policy of vetoing such diplomatic moves against the Jewish State,” wrote the center.
The organization added: “It also urges UN members ‘to distinguish, in their relevant dealings, between the territory of the State of Israel and the territories occupied since 1967,’ effectively endorsing BDS.”
So is everyone who supported Pres Obama's decision to abstain also guilty of the worst "Jew Hatred and anti-Israel" behavior in 2016?
I don't think Obama's decision to abstain from the UN vote was anti-semitic or anti-Israel at all. Do you agree?
paulsurovell said:
A comparison with previous Syrian chemical weapons attacks will tell us something about the US media.
It’s no secret that the U.S. media give some sources more credence than others, and that the Russian and Syrian governments are not high on their list.
And while you one-upped South_Mountaineer and dave23 with your attention to fine print and to the occasional gaps between online and print publication, I think you underestimate the potential impact of the wire services. Hundreds of newsrooms across the country saw that AP article and, using their own judgment, could have published or aired it. If they chose not to, maybe they missed a big story. Or maybe there’s some wisdom in the crowd. They can’t all be driven by the same craven motives, can they?
(You’re welcome for the set-up line.)
DaveSchmidt said:
paulsurovell said:It’s no secret that the U.S. media give some sources more credence than others, and that the Russian and Syrian governments are not high on their list.
A comparison with previous Syrian chemical weapons attacks will tell us something about the US media.
And while you one-upped South_Mountaineer and dave23 with your attention to fine print and to the occasional gaps between online and print publication, I think you underestimate the potential impact of the wire services. Hundreds of newsrooms across the country saw that AP article and, using their own judgment, could have published or aired it. If they chose not to, maybe they missed a big story. Or maybe there’s some wisdom in the crowd. They can’t all be driven by the same craven motives, can they?
(You’re welcome for the set-up line.)
Thank you.
Not craven motives, herd mentality or group-think that follows the lead of the NYT, WaPo, CNN and NBC (more or less). When those sources go all-in with sustained front page headlines, the herd is sure to follow.
The latest chemical weapons attack does not fit the establishment Syria narrative so its coverage will be muted and then likely massaged to emphasize the lack of proof of who did it, which was not a concern when Assad was accused.
There are many important wire service stories that don't fit the narrative and are left to languish on their websites. This appears to be an example:
jamie said:Blumenthal regularly has equated Israel with the Islamic state. Here's one stance I found:
So if they can’t say that ISIL is WORSE than the Jewish state, they’ve decided that the best way to vilify Israel these days is to make clear that the nation’s behavior is surely the equivalent of bloodthirsty beheaders.And thus, in a catchy way to equate the two, the hashtag #JSIL was born on Twitter, presumably standing for Jewish State in the Levant.The proud papa of the hashtag is anti-Zionist activist and writer Max Blumenthal, who created it over the weekend, and its mother is Electronic Intifada contributor Rania Khalek, who has been promoting it on Twitter in a stated effort to get the hashtag to trend. The duo has been producing tweets like this:Like #ISIL, the Jewish State (#JSIL) recruits indoctrinated foreigners to displace indigenous people http://t.co/BBj82PWxcO #JSILisISIL
The Israeli occupation of the West Bank and its suppression of Gaza is violent, racist and immoral, but not on the insane scale of ISIS. An equivalence can be made between the occupation and apartheid South Africa, something Jimmy Carter was pilloried for. Blumenthal criticism of the occupation is beyond the pale and should be condemned, but criticism of the occupation doesn't make him anti-Semitic, nor does it make him anti-Israel, unless you agree with the Weisenthal Center that President Obama is anti-Semitic and anti-Israel for abstaining from the UN resolution which condemned Israel's occupation of the West Bank and East Jerusalem and all settlement activities.
jamie said:
And https://www.jpost.com/Jewish-World/Jewish-Features/Wiesenthal-releases-Top-Ten-2013-anti-Semiticanti-Israel-slurs-list-336564
Hier said of Blumental, “we judge him by what he wrote. He crossed the line into outright anti-Semitism.”
According to the Wiesenthal list, Blumenthal uses chapter titles in his book Goliath to equate Israel with the Nazi regime. Chapters in his book are entitled “Summer Camp of Destruction,” “Date with the Devil,” “There Is No Dream,” “The Concentration Camp,” “The Night of Broken Glass” and “How to Kill Goyim and Influence People.” The center noted that “he quotes approvingly characterizations of Israelis soldiers as ‘Judeo-Nazis.’”
Dr. Eric Alterman, a prominent professor of English in New York City, wrote that Blumenthal’s “book could have been a selection of a hypothetical Hamas Book of the Month Club.” Alterman penned his critical review of Blumenthal’s book in the left-wing magazine The Nation, where he is a columnist.
I read Alterman's review, Max's response and Alterman's response to Max.
My take is that Max's chapter titles by themselves suggest an equivalence between Israel's racist policies toward Palestinians and Africans seeking refuge in Israel and Nazi Germany, and like his comparison between Israel and ISIS, should be condemned. However the content of the book -- apart from the chapter titles -- appears to be accurate and the criticism of Israel's racist policies toward minorities is justified.
However, I agree with Alterman that because of the inflammatory chapter titles the book isn't going to help the minorities Blumenthal seeks to defend, regardless of the book's content.
But the book (based on these articles) is not anti-Semitic nor is it anti-Israel, unless you consider criticism of Israeli policies to be anti-Israel. That would be like calling critics of Trump's immigration policies anti-American.
My attitude toward Max Blumental is that he's a brilliant reporter but he lacks a sensitivity that sometimes makes his work counterproductive. He's deeply opposed to Israeli policies but not an anti-Semite. His work should be judged on its merits, not rejected out of hand because he's written some pretty offensive things.
Blumenthal does have a knack for bringing people together - like Rush Limbaugh and Haaretz.
https://mondoweiss.net/2014/04/limbaugh-company-blumenthal/
He is regularly applauded by the likes of David Duke as well.
And for the record Hillary distanced herself from Max.
Do you agree with his tweet about Elie Wiesel?
Elie Wiesel went from a victim of war crimes to a supporter of those who commit them. He did more harm than good and should not be honored.
In an op-ed Max wrote:
By popularizing an understanding of the Holocaust as a unique event that existed outside of history, Wiesel helped cast Jews as history's ultimate victims.
jamie said:
Blumenthal does have a knack for bringing people together - like Rush Limbaugh and Haaretz.
https://mondoweiss.net/2014/04/limbaugh-company-blumenthal/
He is regularly applauded by the likes of David Duke as well.
And for the record Hillary distanced herself from Max.
Do you agree with his tweet about Elie Wiesel?
Elie Wiesel went from a victim of war crimes to a supporter of those who commit them. He did more harm than good and should not be honored.In an op-ed Max wrote:
By popularizing an understanding of the Holocaust as a unique event that existed outside of history, Wiesel helped cast Jews as history's ultimate victims.
Here's the article you cited about attacks on Max by Rush Limbaugh and Haaretz. You'll see that a number of attacks against him are clearly anti-Semitic. Max opposes Israel's brutal and racist occupation of Palestinians. That doesn't make him an anti-Semite, unless, as I said earlier, you consider President Obama as an anti-Semite, as per the Wiesenthal Center.
You've asked me a lot of questions, but here's a single question for you:
Do you regard President Obama as an anti-Semite, as alleged by the Wiesenthal Center?
The article is long, but because it addresses the smears against Max.
paulsurovell said:
dave23 said:Let's clean this mess up:
paulsurovell said:Says the guy who downplayed previous attacks and fell into a paranoid, truther wormhole because they were committed by Assad
jamie said:So the use of chemical weapons are no big deal as long as no one gets killed?
My guess as to why this one didn't get the same attention is because nobody died and there wasn't video of dead children. Yet, Paul and RT expects us to be equally outraged.
How about this: It's all awful.
BTW, congrats on the latest aggression against Ukraine. #beaboutputin
No, didn't downplay the attacks -- I challenged the sources of the attacks, citing experts like Scott Ritter, Seymour Hersh and Robert Fisk.
Of course it's all awful.
Your use of the word "congrats" evinces a mindset that is eager to slur, reluctant to discuss, on the Ukraine question. Because it's not a black and white situation. George Kennan's quote that hit close to home, needs repeating here:
"There is, let me assure you, nothing in nature more egocentric than embattled democracy. It soon becomes the victim of its own propaganda. It then tends to attach to its own cause an absolute value which distorts its own vision … Its enemy becomes the embodiment of all evil. Its own side is the centre of all virtue."
Your notion that Putin embodies all evil is rather misguided. I look forward to you finding a quote where I say the US is the center of all virtue. It's fun playing in your little sandbox, but once again I'm afraid you are being a bit simple in an effort to downplay Putin's aggression. You have suggested that we are in a new Cold War and that the US's assertions of Russia's meddling could lead to a hot war (which I don't agree with, but that's ok).
Perhaps it's time you recognized that Putin's actions could lead to such an outcome, too.
For reasons I've explained before, I'm offended by the "Tulsi 9/11" thread, and it bothers me that it's still going on.
nohero said:
For reasons I've explained before, I'm offended by the "Tulsi 9/11" thread, and it bothers me that it's still going on.
Speaking of offensive threads, when are you going to defend your offensive OP on your thread that blew up in your face?
I'll be offline for a while but before I leave, here's a Haaretz article that provides context for attempts to conflate opposition to Israeli policies and anti-Semitism:
PLEASE DON'T POST FULL ARTICLES!
What was your defense to these quotes:
Elie Wiesel went from a victim of war crimes to a supporter of those who commit them. He did more harm than good and should not be honored.
In an op-ed Max wrote:
By popularizing an understanding of the Holocaust as a unique event that existed outside of history, Wiesel helped cast Jews as history's ultimate victims.
paulsurovell said:
Not craven motives, herd mentality or group-think that follows the lead of the NYT, WaPo, CNN and NBC (more or less). When those sources go all-in with sustained front page headlines, the herd is sure to follow.
Yes, there’s a lot of chasing going on, but really only among the large and medium-size metropolitan papers, and really just a few stories each day. That leaves the rest of a newspaper’s pages to fill, so the medium metros and those hundreds and hundreds of local papers are still poring through the AP copy and using their own judgment to choose what’s worth printing. They’re not looking to the Times and Post for guidance there. (And the idea that they look to CNN, NBC or any other television network for news judgment gave me a good chuckle. The print superiority complex runs strong.)
jamie said:
PLEASE DON'T POST FULL ARTICLES!
What was your defense to these quotes:
Elie Wiesel went from a victim of war crimes to a supporter of those who commit them. He did more harm than good and should not be honored.In an op-ed Max wrote:
By popularizing an understanding of the Holocaust as a unique event that existed outside of history, Wiesel helped cast Jews as history's ultimate victims.
Perhaps you're not reading my responses carefully enough -- I don't defend everything that Max Blumenthal says. I've said a number of things he's written should be condemned.
With regard to Elie Wiesel, I think he deserved to be honored. I'll address the other remarks later.
But you've asked a bunch of questions that I've answered, and I've asked you only one:
Do you regard President Obama as an anti-Semite, as alleged by the Wiesenthal Center?
Is there a reason why you can't answer that?
I'll concede that the Wiesenthal list is a bit off and that the other article had some valid points.
At the same time - when Blumenthal tends to start with Israel is equivalent with the Islamic state - irregardless of his reasoning - headlines can have more impact then the details.
It's a dangerous comparison and may strengthen some point of views - at least to those who may not fully understand why he made that connection and embolden them.
(and I don't think Obama is an anti-Semite)
paulsurovell said:
nohero said:Speaking of offensive threads, when are you going to defend your offensive OP on your thread that blew up in your face?
For reasons I've explained before, I'm offended by the "Tulsi 9/11" thread, and it bothers me that it's still going on.
https://maplewood.worldwebs.com/forums/discussion/arsonist-s-new-book-i-can-put-out-the-fire?page=next&limit=0#discussion-replies-3431238
Words are not enough, to convey the joy, of how I have lived rent free in your mind, as a result of creating a thread title.
paulsurovell said:
nohero said:Speaking of offensive threads, when are you going to defend your offensive OP on your thread that blew up in your face?
For reasons I've explained before, I'm offended by the "Tulsi 9/11" thread, and it bothers me that it's still going on.
https://maplewood.worldwebs.com/forums/discussion/arsonist-s-new-book-i-can-put-out-the-fire?page=next&limit=0#discussion-replies-3431238
And your title of this thread is still offensive. Your "whatabout" comment is pretty obvious.
And you don't apologize for this thread, which says volumes about you.
nohero said:
paulsurovell said:And your title of this thread is still offensive. Your "whatabout" comment is pretty obvious.
nohero said:Speaking of offensive threads, when are you going to defend your offensive OP on your thread that blew up in your face?
For reasons I've explained before, I'm offended by the "Tulsi 9/11" thread, and it bothers me that it's still going on.
https://maplewood.worldwebs.com/forums/discussion/arsonist-s-new-book-i-can-put-out-the-fire?page=next&limit=0#discussion-replies-3431238
And you don't apologize for this thread, which says volumes about you.
The thread title is anti-Trump.
nohero said:
paulsurovell said:Words are not enough, to convey the joy, of how I have lived rent free in your mind, as a result of creating a thread title.
nohero said:Speaking of offensive threads, when are you going to defend your offensive OP on your thread that blew up in your face?
For reasons I've explained before, I'm offended by the "Tulsi 9/11" thread, and it bothers me that it's still going on.
https://maplewood.worldwebs.com/forums/discussion/arsonist-s-new-book-i-can-put-out-the-fire?page=next&limit=0#discussion-replies-3431238
But why is @nohero afraid to defend his OP?
jamie said:
I'll concede that the Wiesenthal list is a bit off and that the other article had some valid points.
At the same time - when Blumenthal tends to start with Israel is equivalent with the Islamic state - irregardless of his reasoning - headlines can have more impact then the details.
It's a dangerous comparison and may strengthen some point of views - at least to those who may not fully understand why he made that connection and embolden them.
(and I don't think Obama is an anti-Semite)
I agree with this except that I think the Wiesenthal lists are much worse than "a bit off" -- they poison the discussion of Israel's occupation and treatment of minorities.
paulsurovell said:
nohero said:The thread title is anti-Trump.
paulsurovell said:And your title of this thread is still offensive. Your "whatabout" comment is pretty obvious.
nohero said:Speaking of offensive threads, when are you going to defend your offensive OP on your thread that blew up in your face?
For reasons I've explained before, I'm offended by the "Tulsi 9/11" thread, and it bothers me that it's still going on.
https://maplewood.worldwebs.com/forums/discussion/arsonist-s-new-book-i-can-put-out-the-fire?page=next&limit=0#discussion-replies-3431238
And you don't apologize for this thread, which says volumes about you.
The thread title is Tulsi's Islamophobia, which apparently you endorse. It's not "anti-Trump" since you act "pro-Trump" all the time now.
I don't like the fact that the deaths of people I knew are used by Tulsi to encourage more deaths.
I look forward to your smart comeback for that one.
Sponsored Business
Promote your business here - Businesses get highlighted throughout the site and you can add a deal.
For Sale
-
REVO luggage $100
More info
I haven't read it. One of the ironies about Max Blumenthal is that his father Sid, is one of Hillary's closest friends and a Wikileaks email revealed that Sid was recommending to Hillary that she read some of Max's stuff because it was really great (or maybe just interesting). Hillary caught flak from the right wing on that. Another irony is that Sid has been implicated indirectly in the Steele dossier saga.