The Kavanaugh Hearing
dave23 said:
DannyArcher said:In normal times I'd likely vote for Hugin.
Or you can vote the party line for the career politician who is one of only 12 US Senators to ever be indicted by the federal government.
Beat me to the punch. I don't want to vote for Menendez but the clear and present dangerous lunatic in the WH may force my hand.
dave23 said:
DannyArcher said:In normal times I'd likely vote for Hugin.
Or you can vote the party line for the career politician who is one of only 12 US Senators to ever be indicted by the federal government.
I hear you and frankly can't fault democrats for voting for Menendez. It's the realpolitik move.
But it highlights that both sides of the aisle are willing to hold their nose and pick people of less than honorable repute in order to further their agendas.
DannyArcher said:
https://newjerseyglobe.com/congress/hugins-pro-choice-stance-leaves-abortion-opponents-in-a-lurch/
Thank you. That didn't show up in the top 10 of my search! I typed in: does hugin support a woman's right to chose. I just did it again and it was down the list at about 11 after some general articles on the topic of choice.
If you know of any other Rs that take that stand, please share. I'm on a mission.
DannyArcher said:
dave23 said:I hear you and frankly can't fault democrats for voting for Menendez. It's the realpolitik move.
DannyArcher said:In normal times I'd likely vote for Hugin.
Or you can vote the party line for the career politician who is one of only 12 US Senators to ever be indicted by the federal government.
But it highlights that both sides of the aisle are willing to hold their nose and pick people of less than honorable repute in order to further their agendas.
My current political agenda is to get the autocrat-wannabe out of office. I usually vote Dem, but have voted for plenty of Republicans, especially at the state and regional levels. My "agenda" at the time was to have more balance.
DannyArcher said:
You folks are a trip. "I defy you..." Lighten up Francis.
How about the NJ Republican nominee for the Senate, Bob Hugin? He's not crazy, supports gay rights, reproductive rights, believes in climate change and that humans have a role in it, opposes drilling off the coast and supports investments in renewables, believes the cap on SALT deductions is wrong for NJ, supports a pathway to citizenship for Dreamers and other undocumented immigrants.
And if he wins Trump will proclaim it a great victory. And BTW Hugin was a Trump delegate to the Republican National Convention.
Do you think he will not vote for Mitch McConnell as Leader and go along with the Republicans on at least 75% of votes?
Do you think he will ever vote against a Trump judicial nominee?
DannyArcher said:
Or you can vote the party line for the career politician who is one of only 12 US Senators to ever be indicted by the federal government.
Not the "party line", the ideological line.
How many of those other Senator ended up with a hung jury where at least 10 of 12 members were said to have voted for aquital?
If Hugin really believed what he says he believes he would quit the Republican Party.
@dave - I hear you and agree.
Its funny you mention balance. I'm reading a Lincoln biography and was (foolishly) surprised when I read that there were 4 candidates for the presidency in 1860, all of whom received significant numbers of popular and electoral votes. I can only imagine how different it would be if these elections weren't so binary.
There used to be an expression about "meeting in a phone booth" but there are no phone booths anymore.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republicans_for_Choice
DannyArcher said:
Its funny you mention balance. I'm reading a Lincoln biography and was (foolishly) surprised when I read that there were 4 candidates for the presidency in 1860, all of whom received significant numbers of popular and electoral votes. I can only imagine how different it would be if these elections weren't so binary.
The reason there were four candidates was slavery.
LOST said:
DannyArcher said:And if he wins Trump will proclaim it a great victory. And BTW Hugin was a Trump delegate to the Republican National Convention.
You folks are a trip. "I defy you..." Lighten up Francis.
How about the NJ Republican nominee for the Senate, Bob Hugin? He's not crazy, supports gay rights, reproductive rights, believes in climate change and that humans have a role in it, opposes drilling off the coast and supports investments in renewables, believes the cap on SALT deductions is wrong for NJ, supports a pathway to citizenship for Dreamers and other undocumented immigrants.
Do you think he will not vote for Mitch McConnell as Leader and go along with the Republicans on at least 75% of votes?
Do you think he will ever vote against a Trump judicial nominee?
A few other people have said the same thing Lost said about voting for Menendez because Hugin is a vote for McConnell.
This bolsters my earlier argument that Democrats will go after Susan Collins (as they should) no matter how she votes on Kavanaugh. If you have a set of ideological beliefs (like most people here do), then what matters is Senate control, not your own Senator's "independence" or "moderation."
LOST said:If Hugin really believed what he says he believes he would quit the Republican Party.
^This. A really rich guy like Hugin has more than enough resources to have become a Democrat and challenged Menendez in the primary. He's trying to give NJ voters some window dressing to appear as if he's a moderate. But there is no doubt that if he got to the Senate he'd be voting with his party at least 85% of the time.
DannyArcher said:
dave23 said:I hear you and frankly can't fault democrats for voting for Menendez. It's the realpolitik move.
DannyArcher said:In normal times I'd likely vote for Hugin.
Or you can vote the party line for the career politician who is one of only 12 US Senators to ever be indicted by the federal government.
But it highlights that both sides of the aisle are willing to hold their nose and pick people of less than honorable repute in order to further their agendas.
If only that attitude were more prevalent in 2016.
ml1 said:
LOST said:If Hugin really believed what he says he believes he would quit the Republican Party.^This. A really rich guy like Hugin has more than enough resources to have become a Democrat and challenged Menendez in the primary.
I would go one further and say that with his resources Hugin probably wouldn't come close to or actually defeated Menendez in a primary this inner primary this year if he had delivered a mainstream moderate Democratic message. Lisa McCormick got 37% of the vote with almost no money and very little name recognition.
Hugin knows exactly what he has to do to win in New Jersey. I do not believe he is a RINO.
This from Hugin's website gives the game away.
Bob agrees with former President Ronald Reagan, who said: “A nation that cannot control its borders is not a nation.” We need to fix our immigration system in a comprehensive and compassionate way. That means securing our borders, opposing so-called Sanctuary Cities, and supporting law enforcement as they keep our communities safe.
Linking "supporting law enforcement" and "keep our communities safe" to immigration is not "moderate:. It's Trumpist.
His position on Israel and Cuba seem to me to just be pandering to ethnic groups. Of couse Menendez has similar positions.
But his position on North Korea is a sop to the Trumpites.
anyone who's scoffing at my insistence that the parties aren't at all equivalent -- only one party could have given the country the likes of Donald Trump as president. Try to imagine the Democrats nominating Rosie O'Donnell for president. It would be preposterous to consider. Yet the GOP did the right wing version of that.
bub said:
dave23 said:Beat me to the punch. I don't want to vote for Menendez but the clear and present dangerous lunatic in the WH may force my hand.
DannyArcher said:In normal times I'd likely vote for Hugin.
Or you can vote the party line for the career politician who is one of only 12 US Senators to ever be indicted by the federal government.
Yes. There is the possibility of turning the senate. Electing Hugin kills that.
My overriding concern is to muzzle this president and to hinder the corruption of the federal judiciary with the right wing ideologues presented by the Federalist society.
Hugin acts the part of compassionate conservative, one who will independent of the president. Don't be fooled. He'll follow the party line as is done by all of the other Republican senators.
As a pharma executive, where was Hugin in decrying high drug costs? Did he ever decry the unfairness of Medicare Part D no being allowed to negotiate drug pries? No.
So, the accuser has come forward. If it is true, it was a real assault.
peaceinourtime said:
So, the accuser has come forward. If it is true, it was a real assault.
Yes, but can we rule out the Deep State as being behind this? After all, they'll have the FBI and Justice Department collude with Russians to create phony claims about Trump, and they'll have the British police plant evidence in the hotel room of two innocent Russian tourists. Maybe we should hear from our resident "Deep State" experts before passing judgment, even if her recounting has all the elements of someone who actually was assaulted, and even though Kavanaugh looks shiftier and shiftier in all this.
Jeff Flake is making noises about delaying the confirmation. He's on the Judiciary Committee so he could have an actual effect. We'll see.
The Kavanaugh nomination is in real trouble IMO.
For the better part of two weeks Democrats had been spinning their wheels trying to make mountains out of molehills, including Cory Booker's lame Spartacus moment and the usual suspects Schumer, Harris et al furiously insisting the nomination must be blocked because Kavanaugh's tie was crooked or similar minutiae.
But it all changed when Kavanaugh's accuser stepped forward. Now lots of questions. Will the committee hear her out? Seems so. Is Kavanaugh willing to put himself and his family through what promises to be a highly embarrassing (at best) ordeal? What is the risk of GOP pushing this through in terms of #MeToo collateral damage ahead of the midterms?
Before Blasey Ford stepped forward, I reckon confirmation was probably a 95% shot, now I'm thinking more like 50-60%.
Smedley said:
The Kavanaugh nomination is in real trouble IMO.
For the better part of two weeks Democrats had been spinning their wheels trying to make mountains out of molehills, including Cory Booker's lame Spartacus moment and the usual suspects Schumer, Harris et al furiously insisting the nomination must be blocked because Kavanaugh's tie was crooked or similar minutiae.
But it all changed when Kavanaugh's accuser stepped forward. Now lots of questions. Will the committee hear her out? Seems so. Is Kavanaugh willing to put himself and his family through what promises to be a highly embarrassing (at best) ordeal? What is the risk of GOP pushing this through in terms of #MeToo collateral damage ahead of the midterms?
Before Blasey Ford stepped forward, I reckon confirmation was probably a 95% shot, now I'm thinking more like 50-60%.
Just want to sneak in a reminder that Cory Booker's releasing the documents and taking a stand seemed to have given the opportunity to Mazie Hirono to release the information about Kavanaugh's feelings about programs that would impact Native Hawaiians and Native Alaskans which in turn put pressure on Republican Lisa Murkowsky of Alaska who depends on that constituency. I realize that's one hell of a run on sentence but wasn't it a helpful move in retrospect?
If Murkowski votes no based on that information, and she wouldn't have had the information otherwise, then yes Booker's move was helpful. But as I understand it, she and Collins were both pretty much expected to vote yes (at least before this accusation), and the info Booker "released" was available anyway.
there is no way that Kavanaugh should ever be approved for the SCOTUS. The evidence is very strong that he has lied to Congress during his testimony this month, as well as when he was nominated for the district court.
And that's just the tip of the iceberg. There are also the mountains of documents being hidden by the White House. And his shameful work on the Starr committee. Now there is an allegation of a sexual assault. Leaving that allegation aside, just from what is in the public record it's obvious that Kavanaugh is a terrible human being. He's a sleazy, lying, pro-torture, partisan hack
Just heard that in high school he was in the 100 keg club. I believe it was in the yearbook. The goal being to drink that amount during senior year so probably had his share of blackouts. I think if his friend who was a witness and apparently wrote about his own alcoholism, is interviewed, there will be a shadow cast on Ks denial.
With the rehash of the Anita Hill testimony, I think congress will be afraid to confirm him.
I think he will withdraw.
Morganna said:
Just heard that in high school he was in the 100 keg club. I believe it was in the yearbook. The goal being to drink that amount during senior year so probably had his share of blackouts. I think if his friend who was a witness and apparently wrote about his own alcoholism, is interviewed, there will be a shadow cast on Ks denial.
With the rehash of the Anita Hill testimony, I think congress will be afraid to confirm him.
I think he will withdraw.
Mark Judge should testify, along with Christine Blasley Ford and Kavanaugh.
https://www.emptywheel.net/2018/09/17/have-mark-judge-testify-along-with-christine-blasey-ford/
Morganna said:
Just heard that in high school he was in the 100 keg club. I believe it was in the yearbook. The goal being to drink that amount during senior year so probably had his share of blackouts. I think if his friend who was a witness and apparently wrote about his own alcoholism, is interviewed, there will be a shadow cast on Ks denial.
With the rehash of the Anita Hill testimony, I think congress will be afraid to confirm him.
I think he will withdraw.
I hope you are right!
Tom_Reingold said:
Morganna said:I hope you are right!
Just heard that in high school he was in the 100 keg club. I believe it was in the yearbook. The goal being to drink that amount during senior year so probably had his share of blackouts. I think if his friend who was a witness and apparently wrote about his own alcoholism, is interviewed, there will be a shadow cast on Ks denial.
With the rehash of the Anita Hill testimony, I think congress will be afraid to confirm him.
I think he will withdraw.
Worth considering that he has 2 daughters and he coaches their basketball team. Does he want discussions about high school binge drinking to be the subject of gossip among their peers? Even without the sexual assault discussion, denying the heavy drinking will be next to impossible. He can use the standby excuse that he is innocent but he doesn't want to put his family through it.
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I'm curious about Bob Hugin's stand on reproductive rights. I've been researching each politician's stand on a woman's right to chose and since you mentioned his position, can you tell me where I can find his stance. I went to his site and out of about 15 topics, I didn't see it but it may be somewhere else. With the majority of the country in support I'm digging around to find any Republican's who support it. Any info you can share would be appreciated.
https://bobhugin.com/about/issues