Pope Francis, Catholics, and Christians in the news worldwide
Klinker said:
Robert_Casotto said:What would Jesus do?
Perhaps instead of “cages” we should put the illegals up at the Four Seasons; with a spa voucher.
Klinker, let us all press forward on what would Jesus do ("WWJD"). And, why don't you let us all know WWJD about the following:
a. DNA testing for paternity among children and alleged parents at the border?
b. Prevention of sex trafficking of children detained at the border?
c. How conflicting rules/ethics should be harmonized?
d. Does Romans 13:1-7* apply at border detention facilities?
e. Does Galatians 6:10& apply to those detained at border facilities?
If so, should we prioritize detainees based on religious faith as instructed in Galatians 6:10?
f. Should Galatians 6:10 prioritization scheme be applied in other situations such as Christians refugees from Syria?
If we truly want to know WWJD, what makes you think that you, Klinker, would know?
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*- Romans 13:1-7: Submission to Governing Authorities
13 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.
6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.
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&- Galatians 6:10 New International Version (NIV)
10 Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.
WWJD about harassing an elderly lady on an anonymous board about her religious beliefs. Probably, he’d go ahead and not.
Robert_Casotto said:
WWJD about harassing an elderly lady on an anonymous board about her religious beliefs. Probably, he’d go ahead and not.
+100
It is easy to harass others when the one-dishing-it-out believes that they are all that is pure and good. And, the one-dishing-it-out also believes that those who disagree with them are the devil incarnate. My thumbnail sketch of the Klinker phenomenon.
lord_pabulum said:
Is the bottom photo in basil's post on the previous page recent or is it from the batch taken in June 2014?
I don't know but possible.
lord_pabulum said:
Is the bottom photo in basil's post on the previous page recent or is it from the batch taken in June 2014?
Taken from a Washington Post video in 2018, I think.
lord_pabulum said:
Is the bottom photo in basil's post on the previous page recent or is it from the batch taken in June 2014?
Sorry, you are right, the bottom photo is from June 2018, not from 2019 as I originally posted. I corrected the year, thanks for the catch.
proeasdf said:
Klinker, let us all press forward on what would Jesus do ("WWJD"). And, why don't you let us all know WWJD about the following:
a. DNA testing for paternity among children and alleged parents at the border?
Jesus helped people whether they were sinners or not, and whether they were detested by society or not. So I believe DNA testing would not be at the top of his list. But you can DNA test whoever you want as far as I am concerned.
proeasdf said:b. Prevention of sex trafficking of children detained at the border?
I believe Jesus would not favor sex trafficking, so I believe he would rescue the children and take care of them, and punish the perpetrators. That would also include US Agents sexually assaulting underage girls in detention centers: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/migrant-kids-overcrowded-arizona-border-station-allege-sex-assault-retaliation-n1027886
proeasdf said:c. How conflicting rules/ethics should be harmonized?
This is why God gave us common sense. For example Romans 13:1-7 tells us we should always respect authorities, but if you lived in Germany in WW2 and the authorities ordered you to kill your Jewish friend, I am pretty sure we were not supposed to do that. Having said that, this is probably not always completely clear and subject to interpretation.
proeasdf said:d. Does Romans 13:1-7* apply at border detention facilities?
Of course, why not? But so does the rest of the New Testament.
proeasdf said:e. Does Galatians 6:10& apply to those detained at border facilities?
If so, should we prioritize detainees based on religious faith as instructed in Galatians 6:10?
Of course. It says do good to all people, especially believers. If you want to interpret that as helping Christian refugees before non-Christian refugees, then knock yourself out. I prefer to think it means we should help all refugees. As a practical matter I don't believe the order matters a whole lot. Would you let a non-believer bleed to death because you first have to help his buddy who only has minor bruises?
proeasdf said:
f. Should Galatians 6:10 prioritization scheme be applied in other situations such as Christians refugees from Syria?
Galatians 6:10 (just like the full New Testament) applies to refugees and people in need from anywhere. I am not exactly sure what you are getting at, or why this is relevant as a practical matter.
Basil, my brother, that is a beautiful post. It is shame that the blind amongst us here will choose not to see it.
Klinker said:
Basil, my brother, that is a beautiful post. It is shame that the blind amongst us here will choose not to see it.
Thanks, you are my favorite alter ego.
basil said:
Sorry, you are right, the bottom photo is from June 2018, not from 2019 as I originally posted. I corrected the year, thanks for the catch.
No problem. It just looks like these from 2014
basil said:
Klinker said:Thanks, you are my favorite alter ego.
Basil, my brother, that is a beautiful post. It is shame that the blind amongst us here will choose not to see it.
Klinker misses the point of proeasdf questions. They seem just a start for a discussion of WWJD. Thanks Basil for answering but I wouldn't want any part of Klinker's disturbed ego.
lord_pabulum said:Klinker misses the point of proeasdf questions.
No, I am just ignoring golum until he stops responding to what he imagines might be people's implied assertions in some alternate universe where other posters live only to provide him with straw horses and starts responding to their actual posts.
My comment to Basil was with reference to the question I posed to Bob the Blower Cassotto (above). What would Jesus do?
lord_pabulum said:I wouldn't want any part of Klinker's disturbed ego.
Then why do you follow me around like some sort of lovesick rabid puppy?
Klinker said:
lord_pabulum said:Klinker misses the point of proeasdf questions.No, I am just ignoring golum until he stops responding to what he imagines might be people's implied assertions in some alternate universe where other posters live only to provide him with straw horses and starts responding to their actual posts.
My comment to Basil was with reference to the question I posed to Bob the Blower Cassotto (above). What would Jesus do?
I believe that you have mixed the terms of the following phrases: "stalking horse" and "straw man". Thereby, creating a new phrase that only you use (called the "straw horse"). Please let me know whether you also are fond of the phrase "stalking man".
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https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/stalking-horse
stalking-horse in American (ˈstɔkɪŋˌhɔrs ) noun
1. a horse, or a figure of a horse, used as cover by a hunter stalking game
2. anything used to disguise or conceal intentions, schemes, or activities; blind
3. Politics a person whose candidacy is advanced temporarily to conceal the actual choice or to divide the opposition
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https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/straw-man
straw man in American
1. scarecrow
2. a person of little importance; nonentity
3. a weak argument or opposing view set up by a politician, debater, etc. so as to be able to attack it and gain an easy, showy victory
4. a person used to disguise another's intentions, activities, etc.; blind
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Pic of search results for "straw horse" attached.
“The evil in the world must not make me doubt the existence of God. There could be no evil if there were no God. Before there can be a hole in a uniform, there must be a uniform; before there is death, there must be life; before there is error, there must be truth; before there is a crime, there must be liberty and law; before there is a war, there must be peace; before there is a devil, there must be a God, rebellion against whom made the devil.”
― Fulton J. Sheen
Fulton Sheen would know all about evil. The absurdity of his progress towards Sainthood discredits the entire institution.
If ever there was an argument to reinstate the Promotor Fidei!
We are getting a bit off-topic I am afraid. The topic was Christianity and Catholicism and the need to show compassion to refugees. I know it may be uncomfortable, but we need to face our demons.
basil said:
We are getting a bit off-topic I am afraid. The topic was Christianity and Catholicism and the need to show compassion to refugees. I know it may be uncomfortable, but we need to face our demons.
Agreed that we need to show compassion to refugees. However, there are a number of issues that need to be sorted in handling refugees, such as:
How do we identify those people who are sex traffickers who are claiming to be refugees?
How do we deal with those people who are sex traffickers who are claiming to be refugees?
How do we deal with those people who are falsely claiming to be refugees?
It seems to me that you can't trust solely self identification by a person as a refugee. In light of the fact that many sex traffickers are making the same claim (but such claim is merely a cover story to hide the sex trafficking). Thus, it appears to me that we have a conflict on how to proceed under the WWJD analysis.
Klinker said:
Fulton Sheen would know all about evil. The absurdity of his progress towards Sainthood discredits the entire institution.
If ever there was an argument to reinstate the Promotor Fidei!
Are you alleging:
1 Sheen was completely evil and devil incarnate?
2. And, that you, Klinker, are pure goodness and light?
PS Do you believe that you have an obligation to stand in judgment of others?
proeasdf said:
basil said:Agreed that we need to show compassion to refugees. However, there are a number of issues that need to be sorted in handling refugees, such as:
We are getting a bit off-topic I am afraid. The topic was Christianity and Catholicism and the need to show compassion to refugees. I know it may be uncomfortable, but we need to face our demons.
How do we identify those people who are sex traffickers who are claiming to be refugees?
How do we deal with those people who are sex traffickers who are claiming to be refugees?
How do we deal with those people who are falsely claiming to be refugees?
It seems to me that you can't trust solely self identification by a person as a refugee. In light of the fact that many sex traffickers are making the same claim (but such claim is merely a cover story to hide the sex trafficking). Thus, it appears to me that we have a conflict on how to proceed under the WWJD analysis.
I have no idea if this is a real problem or that this is an issue made up by the righteous so they don't have to do the right thing. But if you show compassion with these kids, treat them well, give them the feeling that they are safe, and then you talk to them, it won't be hard to figure that out. See! It will pay off to do the right thing!
basil said:
I have no idea if this is a real problem or that this is an issue made up by the righteous so they don't have to do the right thing. But if you show compassion with these kids, treat them well, give them the feeling that they are safe, and then you talk to them, it won't be hard to figure that out. See! It will pay off to do the right thing!proeasdf said:
basil said:Agreed that we need to show compassion to refugees. However, there are a number of issues that need to be sorted in handling refugees, such as:
We are getting a bit off-topic I am afraid. The topic was Christianity and Catholicism and the need to show compassion to refugees. I know it may be uncomfortable, but we need to face our demons.
How do we identify those people who are sex traffickers who are claiming to be refugees?
How do we deal with those people who are sex traffickers who are claiming to be refugees?
How do we deal with those people who are falsely claiming to be refugees?
It seems to me that you can't trust solely self identification by a person as a refugee. In light of the fact that many sex traffickers are making the same claim (but such claim is merely a cover story to hide the sex trafficking). Thus, it appears to me that we have a conflict on how to proceed under the WWJD analysis.Click to Read Moreproeasdf said:
basil said:Agreed that we need to show compassion to refugees. However, there are a number of issues that need to be sorted in handling refugees, such as:
We are getting a bit off-topic I am afraid. The topic was Christianity and Catholicism and the need to show compassion to refugees. I know it may be uncomfortable, but we need to face our demons.
How do we identify those people who are sex traffickers who are claiming to be refugees?
How do we deal with those people who are sex traffickers who are claiming to be refugees?
How do we deal with those people who are falsely claiming to be refugees?
It seems to me that you can't trust solely self identification by a person as a refugee. In light of the fact that many sex traffickers are making the same claim (but such claim is merely a cover story to hide the sex trafficking). Thus, it appears to me that we have a conflict on how to proceed under the WWJD analysis.
And, your solution does NOT appear to foil sex traffickers (let alone search for them or attempt to identify them). IMHO, a major flaw.
proeasdf said:
And, your solution does NOT appear to foil sex traffickers (let alone search for them or attempt to identify them). IMHO, a major flaw.
Please reread it then, because it DOES foil and take care of the (real or imaginary) sex traffickers. It does it through being kind and compassionate to the children. So it is a double whammy.
By the way, I am not claiming to have detailed plans on all of this. What I am claiming is that Christianity, Catholicism, and just being a decent human being, demand that we show compassion to those who need our help, rather than being selfish and trying to keep our wealth to ourselves. And that includes most of the migrants that seek entry to the US. The Bible for one thing is full of these stories (remember the Good Samaritan?). I am just surprised that that is not more being discussed, especially in this thread.
basil said:Please reread it then, because it DOES foil and take care of the (real or imaginary) sex traffickers. It does it through being kind and compassionate to the children. So it is a double whammy.
By the way, I am not claiming to have detailed plans on all of this. What I am claiming is that Christianity, Catholicism, and just being a decent human being, demand that we show compassion to those who need our help, rather than being selfish and trying to keep our wealth to ourselves. And that includes most of the migrants that seek entry to the US. The Bible for one thing is full of these stories (remember the Good Samaritan?). I am just surprised that that is not more being discussed, especially in this thread.
Basil, the numbers actually show that the vast majority of foreign sex trafficking victims enter the US through conventional points of entry like airports. The one way that this issue DOES intersect with the southern border is that a significant number of the women being held in ICE concentration camps are claiming asylum because they have been VICTIMS of sexual trafficking in their home countries. The Trump Administration has a no mercy policy for those victims. The angels weep, no doubt.
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Is the bottom photo in basil's post on the previous page recent or is it from the batch taken in June 2014?