Trump tests positive for Covid 19

STANV said:

If we were like the Trumpites we would be saying that it's all a hoax and fake news and that Trump never had the virus. 

His debate "performance" was getting panned and hurting him with voters and he found a way to gain the spotlight and change the conversation. A little too convenient.

But of course to believe it is a hoax you have to believe that all the Doctors and staff at Walter Reed were in on it, and that is too much of a stretch for me, but who knows?

 Which case is better for Biden: that it was a hoax or that it wasn't?

btw - I don't think it was a hoax. 

Trump's favorite health guy is all about herd immunity.  Like Berenson - we'll be hearing a lot about Sweden in the near future and how we should be more like the,.

cramer said:

STANV said:

If we were like the Trumpites we would be saying that it's all a hoax and fake news and that Trump never had the virus. 

His debate "performance" was getting panned and hurting him with voters and he found a way to gain the spotlight and change the conversation. A little too convenient.

But of course to believe it is a hoax you have to believe that all the Doctors and staff at Walter Reed were in on it, and that is too much of a stretch for me, but who knows?

 Which case is better for Biden: that it was a hoax or that it wasn't?

btw - I don't think it was a hoax. 

 Every day we're talking about covid is a day Trump is losing. That's the bottom line dynamic of this race.

jamie said:

Trump's favorite health guy is all about herd immunity.  Like Berenson - we'll be hearing a lot about Sweden in the near future and how we should be more like the,.

 I no longer work with the Swedish company I did a few years back and haven't been in touch with my former colleagues there in a while, though if there were sufficient interest I could reach out and ask about what things feel like in Stockholm these days.

From what I've been reading, though, there are two points regarding the Swedish experience I think are worth highlighting:

- Compared to its neighbors, Sweden has had a higher per capita infection and death rate.

- Even though there haven't been government mandates in Sweden the way we've seen in other countries, there have been big changes in public behavior. People are working from home. They're socially distancing. Not sure what the mask situation is.

If conservatives want to argue that it would be better if the United States were more like Sweden, as in a culture that takes their responsibility to their neighbors seriously on their own without the need for the government to urge them to do so, I'd agree. Maybe start by having the president model responsible behavior and strongly urge his supporters to follow suit. If the president can't or won't do that, then they have no business talking about the Swedish model.

I know it will never happen, but what else does he have to do for the 25th Amendment to be invoked? 

The military and Secret Service are really pissed off about his stunts. "We're supposed to take a bullet for him but not from him."

PVW said:

 Every day we're talking about covid is a day Trump is losing. That's the bottom line dynamic of this race.

 True. The only way Covid helps Trump at this point is if there is some clear, rip-roaring broad comeback from it all, but if anything the trend is going in the wrong direction, and the clock is ticking. Trump is trying to manufacture his own rip-roaring, rah-rah personal comeback but I don't think anyone outside of the MAGA imbeciles is buying into that.   

Biden is running a good campaign. He's not reinventing the wheel, but by and large the campaign has been mistake-free, it has kept the far left at arm's length, and it's keeping the focus where it should be -- on Trump.  

STANV said:

But of course to believe it is a hoax you have to believe that all the Doctors and staff at Walter Reed were in on it, and that is too much of a stretch for me, but who knows?

 I have no idea whether it is a hoax or not, but I do know a few things for sure.  If he thought faking it would help him win re-election, he definitely would try it.  Second, it is absolutely possible to fake this.  I'm sure he has a sequestered, private section of the hospital, and only key people would be permitted entrance.  Other than possibly seeing him come and go, I'm sure the vast majority of the staff at the hospital never crossed paths with him.  

cramer said:

Caveat - I posted the above knowing that we can't trust polls. I heard about the CNN poll of polls when I was in my car this morning listening to Bloomberg. The new CNN poll got a lot of attention. Trump knows that he is way behind in the polls and is doing a lot of things in desperation.  

His stunt last night and his tweet and video may energize his base but it didn't get him any votes - it probably cost him.

 at the national level, polling is pretty accurate as a snapshot of a moment in time.  They don't predict the future, and they don't predict what might happen in each state.  It's a complete myth that the 2016 polls were wrong.  In fact on average they were very, very close to the final national tally.  The state polls (often conducted by unreliable pollsters) in several cases were wrong, and unfortunately they were wrong in PA, WI, and MI where the election was decided.

My personal opinion, is that if there were no GOP voter suppression efforts, and everyone who wanted to vote and their votes were counted, Biden would be a shoo-in.  The fact that he isn't is not reflective of the polls, it's reflective of the fact that there are tremendous efforts being brought to bear by Republicans to game the election by keeping people from voting and keeping votes from being tallied.  Our best recourse is to try and turn out so many Democratic voters that it overwhelms the attempts to steal the election.

Smedley said:

 True. The only way Covid helps Trump at this point is if there is some clear, rip-roaring broad comeback from it all, but if anything the trend is going in the wrong direction, and the clock is ticking. Trump is trying to manufacture his own rip-roaring, rah-rah personal comeback but I don't think anyone outside of the MAGA imbeciles is buying into that.   

Biden is running a good campaign. He's not reinventing the wheel, but by and large the campaign has been mistake-free, it has kept the far left at arm's length, and it's keeping the focus where it should be -- on Trump.  

yes, it probably doesn't move the needle.  It's not as though the vast majority of Americans weren't aware that a lot of people recover fully from COVID, and some don't have any symptoms at all. Anyone with an ounce of common sense knows that a Trump recovery is one part luck and one part extraordinary medical response that a president receives.

here's a pretty succinct point about how terrible Trump's response to his infection has been:

Fear is natural in the face of the most deadly pandemic in a century. It’s also useful. Fear has motivated us to understand as much as possible about how the virus spreads, and fear can drive us to take the actions necessary to stop it. If we don’t acknowledge the legitimately frightening reality of this disease, we may not be motivated to act responsibly to reduce transmission. Willfully ignoring that fear puts everyone at risk.

Trump Is Giving Dangerous Advice. Being Afraid Of COVID-19 Has Helped Us Control COVID-19.

PVW said:

If conservatives want to argue that it would be better if the United States were more like Sweden, as in a culture that takes their responsibility to their neighbors seriously on their own without the need for the government to urge them to do so, I'd agree. Maybe start by having the president model responsible behavior and strongly urge his supporters to follow suit. If the president can't or won't do that, then they have no business talking about the Swedish model.

 I'm not so sure about the Swedish social contract.  The stories that have emerged from Sweden's medical community regarding the use of morphine in the place of medical care amongst patients with additional risk factors have been very disturbing. There is a line between negligent care and straight up murder and I think that line may have been crossed in many nursing homes and long term care facilities.

.

Joint Chiefs of Staff now all self-quarantining, one of them tested positive.

Trump is a danger to national security.

nohero said:

Joint Chiefs of Staff now all self-quarantining, one of them tested positive.

Trump is a danger to national security.

Up to 14 officials are believed to have been potentially exposed to the virus after meetings last week with the vice commandant of the Coast Guard, Adm. Charles W. Wray, who has tested positive. 

Wray was not at the Rose Garden event but he was at the White House the following Sunday for an event honoring Gold Star families. 

nohero said:

Joint Chiefs of Staff now all self-quarantining, one of them tested positive.

Trump is a danger to national security.

So now they all work from home, which makes the networking aspect less secure, and easier to break into by our adversaries. Putin must be so happy with himself.

ml1 said:

Anyone with an ounce of common sense knows that a Trump recovery is one part luck and one part extraordinary medical response that a president receives.

 Who are these people with an ounce of common sense of whom you speak?

Certainly not those who at this date are "undecided".

cramer said:

 Which case is better for Biden: that it was a hoax or that it wasn't?

btw - I don't think it was a hoax. 

 If it came out that the entire thing was a hoax it would certainly hurt Trump and help Biden, but that would be limited to those who did not immediately believe that it was a hoax that it was a hoax or those who were admiring of Trump's cleverness in perpetrating a hoax.

Well this is ... horrible. 

basil said:

So now they all work from home, which makes the networking aspect less secure, and easier to break into by our adversaries. Putin must be so happy with himself.

 To be fair, I am pretty sure these guys have access to hardened communication equipment at their homes.

ml1 said:

 Anyone with an ounce of common sense knows that a Trump recovery is one part luck and one part extraordinary medical response that a president receives.

 I think it 100% steroid high.  That stuff is normally administered when patients are in a medically induced coma. 

Even if he is cured of the covid, which I doubt, he is days away from the massive fungal and bacterial infections that come with those kinds of heavy duty steroids.  Ever have thrush in your mouth?  Imagine getting that in every one of the fat folds that hang off that man.

GoSlugs said:

basil said:

So now they all work from home, which makes the networking aspect less secure, and easier to break into by our adversaries. Putin must be so happy with himself.

 To be fair, I am pretty sure these guys have access to hardened communication equipment at their homes.

Yes and No. If they work in the Pentagon, I am pretty sure they have access to a closed network that you simply cannot access from the outside. If you work from home, you will have to use the (open) Internet backbone. I am sure they have encryption and VPNs and all kind of hardened networking technology, but it still has to travel the open internet.

In other words, I am sure they have the safest technology when WFH, and let's hope that is safe enough, but it can never be as safe as working from within the Pentagon.

basil said:

Yes and No. If they work in the Pentagon, I am pretty sure they have access to a closed network that you simply cannot access from the outside. If you work from home, you will have to use the (open) Internet backbone. I am sure they have encryption and VPNs and all kind of hardened networking technology, but it still has to travel the open internet.

In other words, I am sure they have the safest technology when WFH, and let's hope that is safe enough, but it can never be as safe as working from within the Pentagon.

Whatever they talk about goes to Trump who most likely faxes it to Putin.

At any rate it's not comforting that the Joint Chiefs can't meet in person for a couple weeks. Or that some could get really sick. 

Now Stephen Miller....

Jaytee said:

Now Stephen Miller....

With the numbers continue to run up, it's only a matter of time (statistically speaking) until one of them dies. These guys are so irresponsible.

basil said:

With the numbers continue to run up, it's only a matter of time (statistically speaking) until one of them dies. These guys are so irresponsible.

 Russian roulette... 

"Don't cry for me, White House staffers ..."