Our New America:

A Navy vet asked federal officers in Portland to remember their oaths. Then they broke his hand.

Christopher David had watched in horror as videos surfaced of federal officers in camouflage throwing Portland Ore., protesters into unmarked vans. The 53-year-old Portland resident had heard the stories: protesters injured, gassed, sprayed with chemicals that tugged at their nostrils and burned their eyes.

David, a graduate of the U.S. Naval Academy and former member of the Navy’s Civil Engineer Corps, said he wanted to know what the officers involved thought of the oath they had sworn to protect and defend the Constitution.

It seems he got his answer.

terp said:

 As if the "protestors" would ever provoke.

 it's not necessary to use a straw man.  how does "seems as though law enforcement is responsible for escalating a lot of the violence" equate to saying that protesters don't provoke confrontations too?

why not argue with what is in the article from an eyewitness on the scene, which is that these federal agents, whoever they are, are escalating the violence instead of quelling it?

basil said:

terp said:

A real fascist or despot wannabe would have played this card en masse weeks ago.

That's because he is an incompetent fascist and despot. He even sucks at being bad.

Running things like an autocrat and then causing their collapse is basically Trump's brand. 

From https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelschein/2018/08/16/trump-fails-at-everything-so-why-does-he-always-end-up-on-top/#7582c78f117f -

"The perception Trump has managed to create around himself is vastly at odds with the cold realities of his track record. After a few early high-profile real estate wins that were largely funded by his family fortune, Trump’s business flops significantly outnumbered his successes. Trump Steak. Trump Airlines. Trump Vodka. Trump Mortgage. Trump Magazine. Trump University. All were debacles—characterized by disappointed customers, stiffed vendors, and confusion on the part of virtually everyone involved."

See also: https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/donald-trumps-business-failures-were-very-real

terp said:

And for the record, just because I don't agree with your interpretation of the events does not mean I like him.  

I didn't say you like him. But you have been giving him the benefit of the doubt, which he never, ever deserves, for years now.

Anyway, now that he has deployed a federal, unnamed police force into a state without permission, and has threatened to send the same force into more states, does that make him a full-fledged fascist now?

I would think that regardless of the definition used, this kind of nails it.

I suppose on a message board where almost all of the other folks are "leftists" there's always a temptation to be contrarian to oppose any potential groupthink.  But with Donald J. Trump there is almost no reason to ever defend him or give him the benefit of the doubt.  Primarily because virtually everything he says is a lie.  To the extent that it almost seems random when he makes a truthful statement.  And even if he is telling the truth, his history has shown him to be insincere about it most of the time.  

But then there's also the fact that he's a terrible, terrible person and has been for almost all of his life. And fwiw, any of us who knew anything about him knew he was a terrible person when he was a Democrat.  It's not partisan for most of us who knew about his horribleness in the 80s and 90s.  He's been a bigot, a con man, a misogynist and a likely sexual predator for decades.  There's a mountain of evidence.

And then there's the fact that he's clearly got some sort of personality disorder.  His niece who's a psychologist and has seen him up close for decades confirms what's obvious for all to see.  Donald Trump doesn't care about anyone or anything other than Donald Trump.

There are no redeeming qualities in this wannabe authoritarian dictator as much as a contrarian might want to believe there are.

oh look. They might be mercenaries too.

ETA 7/25: THIS PHOTO APPEARS TO BE PHOTOSHOPPED.  DISREGARD

Sorry about that. 

Here are some details on the above photo:

https://www.balloon-juice.com/2020/07/24/its-photoshopped-contractors-from-zti-are-not-deployed-in-portland/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+balloon-juice+%28www.balloon-juice.com%29

One Twitter post assumes it’s ZTi. Then Balloon Juice makes the leap that it’s photoshopped, all because there’s a space and a different patch also has a Z. 

As far as I can tell, it’s neither. As Heavy put it: “The patch actually reads ZT1 and is part of an identifier system that federal agencies are using right now in Portland instead of placing an officer’s name on the uniform.”

Here’s a screen grab from a video on the Times homepage. Different shot. Same patch.

drummerboy said:

terp said:

And for the record, just because I don't agree with your interpretation of the events does not mean I like him.  

I didn't say you like him. But you have been giving him the benefit of the doubt, which he never, ever deserves, for years now.

Anyway, now that he has deployed a federal, unnamed police force into a state without permission, and has threatened to send the same force into more states, does that make him a full-fledged fascist now?

I would think that regardless of the definition used, this kind of nails it.

 I am interested in the truth.  All of these assertions about peaceful protests or mostly peaceful protests are completely counterfactual.    I don't like federal police inserting themselves(though one can argue that they could protect federal property if there is such a thing), but what is going on with these city governments where they let violent riots continue without any real attempts to establish order.  The corporate media reports this as peaceful and then when that is unteneblento anyone with an IQ over say 8, they move to "mostly peaceful".  And a lot of people actually believe this.  BTW are we still on the counterfactual about right wing militias perpetuating the violence and making it seem like antifa?  Imagine actually believing that. 

lovely 

look at how the police are provoking these "protesters"

terp said:

look at how the police are provoking these "protesters"

OMG, a guy with a motor helmet, and a guy with a wooden stick.

And since when do you mind what the local authorities in Seattle do or don't do? I thought you were a libertarian. So what business is this of yours?

terp,

you really need to get some new sources. You're scraping the bottom of the barrel.

also, don't ever call yourself a libertarian again.

basil said:

terp said:

look at how the police are provoking these "protesters"

OMG, a guy with a motor helmet, and a guy with a wooden stick.

And since when do you mind what the local authorities in Seattle do or don't do? I thought you were a libertarian. So what business is this of yours?

 I can tell that building was about to collapse any second. 

terp said:

lovely

The odds that the officer would be hit in the face by that object tossed by a protester were probably similar to the odds that the projectile tossed by the officer would hit a protester in the face.

That aside, the “Democrat political candidate in Illinois,” a 20-year-old running for a county board seat, apologized for her comment and withdrew from the race.

More police provoking protesters...

This one won't embed for some reason.  I'm left wondering if people here would change their tune if the violence and destruction hit a bit closer to home.

DaveSchmidt said:

terp said:

lovely

The odds that the officer would be hit in the face by that object tossed by a protester were probably similar to the odds that the projectile tossed by the officer would hit a protester in the face.

 I guess that's what makes it so hilarious.   

The embed feature is a bit buggy on this board. Here's how the corporate media frames up these stories.

^^^^^^^ That is how you prepare for a peaceful protest.

These are lovely people who are oppressed and only attack when threatened.

terp said:

The embed feature is a bit buggy on this board. Here's how the corporate media frames up these stories.

 are you using the asterisk widget? It usually works, but you have to get the embed code from twitter, rather than just a link to the tweet.

Here is that lovely individual who shoves the guy at the end of the previous video.  Here he confronts some elderly people.  His courage and class is notable.

Portland police record highest number of death investigations in single month in more than three decades

Armed for peace...

this one is almost funny

“Simply put, the legislation gives officers NO ability to safely intercede to preserve property in the midst of a large, violent crowd.”

The “safely” part refers to the officers, of course, not to the crowd, the idea being that it surrenders any claim to safety because of its violence. Blue Checkmark Mike doesn’t frame it this way, but the question is this: Is protecting property from damage, as the Seattle chief would have it, worth the risk of serious injury, or worse, to people in the crowd? Or is it better, as it appears the Council would have it, to risk letting stores be destroyed as long as no one is seriously injured?