Police ticketing out of control...quota in full force
sender said:
Two days ago, got pulled over going 5 miles an hour on South Orange Avenue in the heart of town, near Sloan Street, driving my son and friend to high school. Officer was a bully, not to mention a racist as he intimidated the black teenage friend in our back seat. Truly awful experience for all 3 of us. I went to the station and filed a report but no one seemed to care. The lieutenant took down my complaint, said he'd call me the next day and never did for two days. I called him twice today and got lip service. Then today my cleaning lady got a ticket parked on my street in town. Really? I'm not going to say we're being targeted, that would be a bit paranoid. But, if there is a quota system being imposed on these officers, really, is this the best method for how money is to be raised? Ticketing our own citizens in town? I'm not sure why I was pulled over, officer was so rude I figured I'd just take ticket and get the kids to the high school. He mentioned I was too far to the right on the street under the bridge? Ugh!!!!
It is unconscionable that you got pulled over and don't know why. This is the very first thing that the Officer should have told you.
kenboy said:
Making a left turn from a right lane isn't ignorance of the traffic law, but just plain ignorance. And I'm pretty sure at this point, if any of this is even true, that what the officer actually said would have related to the driver being too far to the right at Ridgewood to make a left turn. You don't get to turn left from the right lane, into the path of vehicles properly turning left from the left lane, just because straight has been blocked off; you turn right, even if doing so sends you temporarily in the wrong direction. The inconvenience do you does not in any way outweigh the danger you otherwise cause to others.
mjc said:
As to the OP's ticket, it sounds as though he/she turned left out of the right lane, and as the TAL transcript indicates (I think), ignorance of the traffic law is not a defense. Which doesn't excuse the officer for being rude, if the occupants of the car were not rude to him/her. Good for you for reporting that!
marylago said:
1. Two hour parking on residential streets is the norm. If I park on my street, I make sure I never do it for more than two hours, because I will get a ticket. Maybe your cleaning lady can park in your driveway...
2. I was at that intersection when they were doing work and had to make a left onto SOA. I had to shift over to the left and still I knew what I was doing was not really legal. I just prayed I got away with it and if I did get stopped, I would have tried to explain, but I was obviously wrong, so I would have accepted the ticket.
3. Blaming the police for your infractions isn't really helpful.
Precisely, all of the above. People frequently mention having done something for which they've "never been given a ticket" which is basically just good fortune. The street signs have been updated in my neighborhood, and the street markings redone after several years of illegal parking because the no parking lines had worn off and the signs weren't up. People also use my street as a speedway option to Valley St. Now that everything's current- they issue tickets. (overnight parking tickets never stopped) Traffic laws aren't criminal so don't Perry Mason this stuff- simply appear, state you wish to refute the ticket, and follow the court's procedures. In my former jurisdiction, people who spent time in jail in lieu of paying traffic offense fines were billed back their jail and court costs per their probation agreement. If you feel there is an administrative error on the citation, then by all means speak up. But beware of simply "trying to make a point" if you've actually got no grounds. (former officer here, but not in NJ)
If the police need to fill a quota, I invite them to hang out on my street (Audley). They could write tickets all day. Every time I have a cup of coffee on my porch I see at least two or three cars violating the speed limit, often by a good 20 mph or so. We have tons of kids on our street, it is only a matter of time until something horrible happens.
bub said:
Whatever happens, don't go to jail. I'm sure the traffic judge is extremely reluctant to send people to jail. I'm sure poor people are there every day saying they can't pay. Few go to jail. You can probably negotiate your way out of it with the prosecutor.
There's quite a difference between "I can't pay" and "I won't pay." The court will not be mocked.
sender said:
OK so I'll call over to the police dept and see if I can get more info as to where the infraction occurred.
I wouldn't call. WRITE and get a written deposition. That way, if the officer's testimony differs from what he wrote, the testimony can be challenged.
It's traffic court. No one there, including the judge prosecutor and cops, thinks anything weighty is going on. They just want to move the line along and clear the docket. If a woman shows up with her child, I'm pretty sure she's not going to jail even if she's defiant (although I would advise against that - be respectful and even tempered).
BG9 said:
bub said:
Whatever happens, don't go to jail. I'm sure the traffic judge is extremely reluctant to send people to jail. I'm sure poor people are there every day saying they can't pay. Few go to jail. You can probably negotiate your way out of it with the prosecutor.
There's quite a difference between "I can't pay" and "I won't pay." The court will not be mocked.
bub said:
It's traffic court. No one there, including the judge prosecutor and cops, thinks anything weighty is going on. They just want to move the line along and clear the docket. If a woman shows up with her child, I'm pretty sure she's not going to jail even if she's defiant (although I would advise against that - be respectful and even tempered).
BG9 said:
bub said:
Whatever happens, don't go to jail. I'm sure the traffic judge is extremely reluctant to send people to jail. I'm sure poor people are there every day saying they can't pay. Few go to jail. You can probably negotiate your way out of it with the prosecutor.
There's quite a difference between "I can't pay" and "I won't pay." The court will not be mocked.
It is weighty when you tell the judge in open court you're refusing to do what the court orders. You can say I can't pay or not go to the cashier to pay after the case is held and the fine and court costs are adjudged (there are consequences for that). But don't tell a the judge in his court you will refuse him. To let that go sets a precedent for others. Its not allowed.
Women are at times held for transfer to county after sentencing or when in contempt. Any child present when there is no other custodial caretaker in court will be turned over to protective services.
You've seen this in traffic court?
BG9 said:
bub said:
It's traffic court. No one there, including the judge prosecutor and cops, thinks anything weighty is going on. They just want to move the line along and clear the docket. If a woman shows up with her child, I'm pretty sure she's not going to jail even if she's defiant (although I would advise against that - be respectful and even tempered).
BG9 said:
bub said:
Whatever happens, don't go to jail. I'm sure the traffic judge is extremely reluctant to send people to jail. I'm sure poor people are there every day saying they can't pay. Few go to jail. You can probably negotiate your way out of it with the prosecutor.
There's quite a difference between "I can't pay" and "I won't pay." The court will not be mocked.
It is weighty when you tell the judge in open court you're refusing to do what the court orders. You can say I can't pay or not go to the cashier to pay after the case is held and the fine and court costs are adjudged (there are consequences for that). But don't tell a the judge in his court you will refuse him. To let that go sets a precedent for others. Its not allowed.
Women are at times held for transfer to county after sentencing or when in contempt. Any child present when there is no other custodial caretaker in court will be turned over to protective services.
Of course you realize that everything is recorded now, police bodycams! So make sure your you review the video.
sender said:
LOST said:
sender,
You could post the ticket here so we can see it. Just cover your name and drivers license number.
Does it recite a statute number? Does it say 39:4-124 or a different number? If the charge on the ticket is not clear that would be grounds for dismissal. Does he ticket state that it occurred near or on Sloane or does it indicate Ridgewood and SO Ave?
If you plead NG you will have a trial. The State will have to produce the Officer to testify. You can cross-examine the Officer and you can testify. If you are found guilty you will have the right to appeal. If you change your mind and decide to pay the fine but need more time to raise the cash the Judge will give you more time.
I would greatly appreciate it if you would come back after the case is over and tell us about your experience.
Good luck.
Finally, a thinking person. Yes, it does say 39:4-124 on the ticket!! But it also says the location was SO Ave/Sloan St. If the officer does say it's because I made a left turn while on the right hand side of Ridgewood,that would be something I might fight because I couldn't go straight as I mentioned since there were two police cars blocking Ridgewood (you can't see the police cars until you're practically on top of them, which is why I then switched to make a left on SO ave. All this was very confusing. But the officer didn't seem to say it was because of this, he said it was more being on the right lane on SO Avenue under Sloan. I'll call the station tomorrow, and see. But if I do go through a NG plea and a trial, and an appeal, can I say on principle I will not pay and then go to jail? It's not about the cash, I have enough of that, it's that this should never have escalated into an officer screaming at my passenger, and he should have said something like "I see there was so much confusion with those officers blocking the way, and you seem to have gone to the right of the road a bit and please be careful, this is a warning,no harm done. Kids, good luck in school today." But no, both kids missed their classes, were shook up by this incident, and left hating this cop. Shouldn't have happened. Period. I'm not paying.
south orange cops are the worst. angry, hostile bullies. they should take a lesson from maplewood cops. they say hello, they engage with the community. all south orange cops do are give out tickets and talk down to you.
boookwormnj said:
south orange cops are the worst. angry, hostile bullies. they should take a lesson from maplewood cops. they say hello, they engage with the community. all south orange cops do are give out tickets and talk down to you.
From one "bookworm" to another I think you are Waaaaayyyy off base. I deal with the So Orange police officers on a regular basis and have found them by and large to be most gracious and friendly. Tarring with a mighty large brush, aren't you?
I read this whole thread, trying to understand what happened. Knowing where you were pulled over, the descriptions I am reading of what happened, and what the offense was, I don't think it had anything to do with what happened at the Ridgewood Rd and SOA intersection. See the attached picture from Google Maps. My guess is you were in the right hand lane coming out from under the railroad overpass, which is marked as a right turn only onto Sloan St, and then you went straight instead.
Unfortunately Google Maps doesn't have a street view in the direction you were driving but I included one here from the other side of the street. Hope this helps.
That's the way I read it. Down Ridgewood by SOMS, left onto SO Ave because SOPD were blocking the way straight due to a pothole, down SO Ave till Sloan, straight on SO Ave from the rightmost lane where one can only turn, and a ticket issued up the line before a right could be made onto Valley. Somewhere in that timeframe they were doing 5mph for some unknown (and possibly legit, possibly insane) reason but didn't get ticketed for that particular point of note.
Sounds like the ticket was well-deserved. One wonders about the outcome.
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Somebody correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the penalty for not paying your moving violation ticket a license suspension and not jail? Could be wrong but I remember reading that .