Police ticketing out of control...quota in full force
sender said:
so basically be careful for electricians, plumbers, teenage playdates, SAT tutors (for math and reading), any friend visiting, all relatives.
Well said sender. It's true, anyone parking on a residential street for more than two hours would include all of the above. Take back our power.
sender said:
sender said:
so basically be careful for electricians, plumbers, teenage playdates, SAT tutors (for math and reading), any friend visiting, all relatives.
Well said sender. It's true, anyone parking on a residential street for more than two hours would include all of the above. Take back our power.
And the troll exposes himself. Looks like you forgot to sign out and sign back in with your alter-ego.
Is there such a thing as a day in jail in lieu of a ticket? I get you're defiant, as is your right but it's a traffic ticket not a civil rights violation. If the only tool you have is a hammer, all your problems start to look like nails (paraphrasing). Good luck. Keep us posted.
If the ticket says SO and Sloane and the Officer says it happened at Ridgewood and SO that inconsistency may be fatal to the ticket. I have no idea why the Officer got into it with your passenger but you might want to bring that passenger with you. When you get there speak to the Prosecutor and explained what happened but be civil to the Prosecutor, he didn't write the ticket. Try to explain calmly what happened. Being belligerent will not help, but you have a right to forcefully defend yourself.
sender said:
sender said:
so basically be careful for electricians, plumbers, teenage playdates, SAT tutors (for math and reading), any friend visiting, all relatives.
Well said sender. It's true, anyone parking on a residential street for more than two hours would include all of the above. Take back our power.
Why don't you and your neighbors sign a petition to the BOT to remove the two-hour parking limit on your street? Why is it there?
jimmurphy said:
sender said:
sender said:
so basically be careful for electricians, plumbers, teenage playdates, SAT tutors (for math and reading), any friend visiting, all relatives.
Well said sender. It's true, anyone parking on a residential street for more than two hours would include all of the above. Take back our power.
And the troll exposes himself. Looks like you forgot to sign out and sign back in with your alter-ego.
did it purposefully. Who's exposing who.
LOST said:
If the ticket says SO and Sloane and the Officer says it happened at Ridgewood and SO that inconsistency may be fatal to the ticket. I have no idea why the Officer got into it with your passenger but you might want to bring that passenger with you. When you get there speak to the Prosecutor and explained what happened but be civil to the Prosecutor, he didn't write the ticket. Try to explain calmly what happened. Being belligerent will not help, but you have a right to forcefully defend yourself.
Yes, I will be clear and truthful. But I will not pay a fine. I understand they will fine me, I just want to know if anyone has ever denied paying and chosen jail??
to what end? You will not have a choice. You can go to jail and then pay the fine, but you can't go to jail instead of the fine.
Thoreau went in instead of paying taxes. Perhaps there could be a book out of this: "On Duck Pond"
FilmCarp said:
to what end? You will not have a choice. You can go to jail and then pay the fine, but you can't go to jail instead of the fine.
is that true? I thought if you don't pay the fine you go to jail.
Possible scenarios would include sentencing to jail, some type of probation (nothing happens if you don't get another ticket for a determined time period) or having your license suspended. Probably any of these will also result in your car insurance premium going up or depending on your contract, your insurer might be able to just drop you.
sender said:
jimmurphy said:
sender said:
sender said:
so basically be careful for electricians, plumbers, teenage playdates, SAT tutors (for math and reading), any friend visiting, all relatives.
Well said sender. It's true, anyone parking on a residential street for more than two hours would include all of the above. Take back our power.
And the troll exposes himself. Looks like you forgot to sign out and sign back in with your alter-ego.
did it purposefully. Who's exposing who.
Mmm hmm... Do you often refer to yourself in the 3rd person?
In more than three decades of residence close to the street where the cleaning woman received a parking ticket during daytime hours I have never observed a police officer writing tickets on that street. The two possibilities are that the ticket was issued by the parking authority or a police officer in response to a complaint by a resident who thought that a commuter was parking on the street. I suggest that you examine carefully the ticket to see who issued it. In any event maybe this incident will embolden residents to question why no tickets are issued to illegal parkers on the east side of Ward Place where the sign states clearly "no parking on this side"
FilmCarp said:
to what end? You will not have a choice. You can go to jail and then pay the fine, but you can't go to jail instead of the fine.
I have a family member in Texas who has served short stints in jail in exchange for unpaid tickets. More precisely, in exchange for the warrant leading to his arrest after the ticket wasn't paid, but the time served covered the cost of the ticket. Maybe it's a state-by-state thing.
So far it sounds to me as if the tickets may have been legitimate. If so, then even if similar infractions had previously not been ticketed, that is not justification against them being ticketed now.
If the tickets are not legitimate, then by all means contest it with the facts of the case. But complaints about ticket quotas or whatever are not likely to be as well received as relevant facts.
My two cents.
I believe you are entitled to a written deposition from the officer, prior to your appearance with the prosecutor. That is so you can properly prepare your defense and evaluate your options. After all, how can you defend yourself if you don't know exactly what you are charged with? If this is so, you might send certified letter to the prosecutor, certified copy to the judge to request such written deposition.
If the officer's deposition refers to "markings," you may be able to win the case by examining those markings to see if any are worn, eroded or not in perfect condition. N.J.D.O.T. requires signs and such to be in usable condition. There is a statute on this in the New Jersey Annotated Statutes (Millburn Library has a set of N.J.S.A.) Furthermore, if the "marking" is not clear or doesn't even exist, you may have a Due Process defense. In other words, you are supposed to have fair and conspicuous prior warning. I beat a ticket with this defense in Summit where a "No Parking between the hours of -- and ---" was worn out.
Says C.O.P. to the judge: "Your honor, the city does not give enough funds to replace every sign when it is worn out."
Says I: "Your honor, if I was before you with a broken headlight and I told you my wife didn't give me enough allowance to replace the headlight, would I be declared not guilty?"
I was declared not guilty after the judge reserved his decision to examine the sign. Two weeks later, the signs were replaced.
I am not a lawyer. I am just telling you what I would do.
I may have been incorrect about the jail time. A little searching says that if you can't afford the fine the judge can order you to jail. I could not find anything about refusing to pay the fine when you are able to. I would think that that would be considered contempt, but I'm not at all certain.
However, it would be best to find out if the jail time would be spent in Maplewood (not bad because the takeout is from Park Wood) or in Newark.
Making a left turn from a right lane isn't ignorance of the traffic law, but just plain ignorance. And I'm pretty sure at this point, if any of this is even true, that what the officer actually said would have related to the driver being too far to the right at Ridgewood to make a left turn. You don't get to turn left from the right lane, into the path of vehicles properly turning left from the left lane, just because straight has been blocked off; you turn right, even if doing so sends you temporarily in the wrong direction. The inconvenience do you does not in any way outweigh the danger you otherwise cause to others.
mjc said:
As to the OP's ticket, it sounds as though he/she turned left out of the right lane, and as the TAL transcript indicates (I think), ignorance of the traffic law is not a defense. Which doesn't excuse the officer for being rude, if the occupants of the car were not rude to him/her. Good for you for reporting that!
Formerlyjerseyjack said:
I believe you are entitled to a written deposition from the officer, prior to your appearance with the prosecutor. That is so you can properly prepare your defense and evaluate your options. After all, how can you defend yourself if you don't know exactly what you are charged with? If this is so, you might send certified letter to the prosecutor, certified copy to the judge to request such written deposition.
If the officer's deposition refers to "markings," you may be able to win the case by examining those markings to see if any are worn, eroded or not in perfect condition. N.J.D.O.T. requires signs and such to be in usable condition. There is a statute on this in the New Jersey Annotated Statutes (Millburn Library has a set of N.J.S.A.) Furthermore, if the "marking" is not clear or doesn't even exist, you may have a Due Process defense. In other words, you are supposed to have fair and conspicuous prior warning. I beat a ticket with this defense in Summit where a "No Parking between the hours of -- and ---" was worn out.
Says C.O.P. to the judge: "Your honor, the city does not give enough funds to replace every sign when it is worn out."
Says I: "Your honor, if I was before you with a broken headlight and I told you my wife didn't give me enough allowance to replace the headlight, would I be declared not guilty?"
I was declared not guilty after the judge reserved his decision to examine the sign. Two weeks later, the signs were replaced.
I am not a lawyer. I am just telling you what I would do.
thank you so much, I'll go by there tomorrow and walk the area to see if the markings are worn out, I know I am!! Btw these markings would not be sign, I believe it's an arrow on the street pavement on SO avenue indicating right lane goes right into shopping area (Starbucks area). It seems I was too far to the right at that spot is the only thing I can surmise. I do know that no tape of this exists as the lieutenant mentioned he'd try and find a camera tape of my driving, but apparently couldn't find one. Isn't it then, officer's word against mine? Officer's memory against my memory (that's a tough one)? Officer's state of mind considering he then lashed into my passenger?
Formerlyjerseyjack said:
However, it would be best to find out if the jail time would be spent in Maplewood (not bad because the takeout is from Park Wood) or in Newark.
also Maplewood is the newer "Marriott-like facility?"
OK so I'll call over to the police dept and see if I can get more info as to where the infraction occurred.
1. Two hour parking on residential streets is the norm. If I park on my street, I make sure I never do it for more than two hours, because I will get a ticket. Maybe your cleaning lady can park in your driveway...
2. I was at that intersection when they were doing work and had to make a left onto SOA. I had to shift over to the left and still I knew what I was doing was not really legal. I just prayed I got away with it and if I did get stopped, I would have tried to explain, but I was obviously wrong, so I would have accepted the ticket.
3. Blaming the police for your infractions isn't really helpful.
marylago said:
1. Two hour parking on residential streets is the norm. If I park on my street, I make sure I never do it for more than two hours, because I will get a ticket. Maybe your cleaning lady can park in your driveway...
I believe that is only for certain streets that are near the train or schools. I That is not the case in my neighborhood but I do see those signs in many other areas. Point of information.
Agreed. I think if OP contests ticket, OP needs to focus specifically on OP's contention that the infraction cited by the PD was not committed by the driver. That's it. Drop all the noise and waah-waahs about real or imagined ticket quotas, unfairness to SO residents, rude cop, cleaning lady ticket, etc etc etc.
marylago said:
3. Blaming the police for your infractions isn't really helpful.
If you really want to put up an effective fight:
Go to to court the day before, or early on your day, and get a feel of how contested cases go (what the judge is interested in etc).
Be prepared. Gather your thoughts. If its helpful and they are witnesses to relevant facts, your son and the other passenger should be there too.
I'll bet there's more than one web site on how to fight a moving violation in traffic court. Look.
Whatever happens, don't go to jail. I'm sure the traffic judge is extremely reluctant to send people to jail. I'm sure poor people are there every day saying they can't pay. Few go to jail. You can probably negotiate your way out of it with the prosecutor.
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Finally, a thinking person. Yes, it does say 39:4-124 on the ticket!! But it also says the location was SO Ave/Sloan St. If the officer does say it's because I made a left turn while on the right hand side of Ridgewood,that would be something I might fight because I couldn't go straight as I mentioned since there were two police cars blocking Ridgewood (you can't see the police cars until you're practically on top of them, which is why I then switched to make a left on SO ave. All this was very confusing. But the officer didn't seem to say it was because of this, he said it was more being on the right lane on SO Avenue under Sloan. I'll call the station tomorrow, and see. But if I do go through a NG plea and a trial, and an appeal, can I say on principle I will not pay and then go to jail? It's not about the cash, I have enough of that, it's that this should never have escalated into an officer screaming at my passenger, and he should have said something like "I see there was so much confusion with those officers blocking the way, and you seem to have gone to the right of the road a bit and please be careful, this is a warning,no harm done. Kids, good luck in school today." But no, both kids missed their classes, were shook up by this incident, and left hating this cop. Shouldn't have happened. Period. I'm not paying.