I did the same thing after reading your post. I got to a section where it said that there was missing info and did I want to claim it as MY house in order to fill in the data. But I'm hesitant to do that. Any upside or downside? (We have no plans to sell anytime soon, but we are renovating and no doubt looking at a non-trivial increase in our assessment as a result. Wondering if putting the info out there might make that worse?)
Mine is missing most info, and I didn't add it in or claim our house (I assume we would get realtor-type spam if we did). So, it's very possible that the Zestimate is way off base because it doesn't have most of the info.
"Because we had friends there, we chose Maplewood/South Orange (which I soon learned is called SOMA), populated by artists and hipsters and other non-typical “suburbia” types, who are seeking more space at a semi-affordable price."
Typical lazy journalism you see with these types of stories. It's easy to stereotype and simplify to achieve a certain viewpoint.
In the end, she stayed in NYC which is what she really wanted.
I’ve never given anyone side eye for being a working parent. My original plan was to be a working parent. But the job I had when I had my first child paid $29k a year (I was one of those overpaid public employees people complain about ) and couldn’t afford child care for an infant on my take home pay, not that traditional child care would have been an option anyway. I was on overnights, 7p to 6a, rotating 4/4 schedule, and I had actually managed to arranged child care with a relative when suddenly three weeks before I was due to return to work I was moved to the swing shift (12p to 11a) because someone with seniority decided he wanted my shift. The swing shift could be rescheduled to days or overnights with as little as six hours notice. Between the low pay and the unpredictable shift putting in my resignation became my best option.
One of the things I don't understand about the "NY types" coming to Maplewood, as it relates to our evident reputation for being a hipster / artsy sort of place:
Over the past year I have seen three separate houses "flipped" by the same realtor. One next door to me, and we watched what they were doing to that house. Just covered up rotten siding with some sort of sheeting, then new siding over that, etc etc. Poured black goo over a completely disintegrated driveway. That kind of thing. And when it was done, it looked totally soulless and bland. It sold for way too much money than it was worth and was barely on the market before it sold.
On my walks I pass another house that from the outside looks identical to this one. Same exact paint color, same young plantings in garden, real estate listings show same cold, cold white paint color used throughout the interior, etc. Sure enough, sold recently by same realtor. It's a different house shape but so similar to the first one that it is eerie.
There is a third one I've been watching as they've been "renovating" it - not in my immediate neighborhood, but I go past it on walks. It looks exactly like the first two. A different paint color at least, but equally soulless and bland. It's now listed, again the same realtor, same ice-cold white interior.
These houses are pretty much the definition of bad flips which is by no means a new thing in real estate of course. the second one I'm not sure as I didn't see the changes in progress and I'm just guessing that it's similar to the other two.
But what I don't understand is that this seems to be what these young supposed "hipsters" want. They want bland, suburban tract houses all taken from the same cookie cutter box? They could get that for a lot less elsewhere, and there wouldn't be rotting shingles under the bland exterior.
Here's the current definition of hipster, as per Wikipedia. Surprised the author of the article would want to move to a place with a surfeit of such individuals:
"The 21st century hipster is a subculture that is defined by claims to authenticity and uniqueness yet, ironically, is notably lacking in authenticity and conforms to a collective style. It embodies a particular ethic of consumption which seeks to commodify the idea of rebellion or counterculture, and fashion is one of the major markers of hipster identity.[1][2][3] Members of the subculture typically do not self-identify as hipsters,[4] and the word hipster is often used as a pejorative for someone who is pretentious or overly concerned with appearing trendy.[5] Stereotypical elements include vintage clothes and other non-mainstream fashion, skinny jeans, checked shirts, an ironicmoustache or full beard, and big glasses.[6]The subculture is broadly associated with indie and alternative music. In the United States it is mostly associated with perceived upper-middle-class whiteyoung adults who gentrify urban areas.[7][2][8][9]The term hipster in its present usage first appeared in the 1990s and became particularly prominent in the late 2000s and early 2010s,[10] being derived from the earlier hipster movements of the 1940s.[11]
One of the things I don't understand about the "NY types" coming to Maplewood, as it relates to our evident reputation for being a hipster / artsy sort of place:
Over the past year I have seen three separate houses "flipped" by the same realtor. One next door to me, and we watched what they were doing to that house. Just covered up rotten siding with some sort of sheeting, then new siding over that, etc etc. Poured black goo over a completely disintegrated driveway. That kind of thing. And when it was done, it looked totally soulless and bland. It sold for way too much money than it was worth and was barely on the market before it sold.
On my walks I pass another house that from the outside looks identical to this one. Same exact paint color, same young plantings in garden, real estate listings show same cold, cold white paint color used throughout the interior, etc. Sure enough, sold recently by same realtor. It's a different house shape but so similar to the first one that it is eerie.
There is a third one I've been watching as they've been "renovating" it - not in my immediate neighborhood, but I go past it on walks. It looks exactly like the first two. A different paint color at least, but equally soulless and bland. It's now listed, again the same realtor, same ice-cold white interior.
These houses are pretty much the definition of bad flips which is by no means a new thing in real estate of course. the second one I'm not sure as I didn't see the changes in progress and I'm just guessing that it's similar to the other two.
But what I don't understand is that this seems to be what these young supposed "hipsters" want. They want bland, suburban tract houses all taken from the same cookie cutter box? They could get that for a lot less elsewhere, and there wouldn't be rotting shingles under the bland exterior.
But what I don't understand is that this seems to be what these young supposed "hipsters" want. They want bland, suburban tract houses all taken from the same cookie cutter box? They could get that for a lot less elsewhere, and there wouldn't be rotting shingles under the bland exterior.
Sucker born every minute I guess ...
I think most people would prefer a house with more character, but it's not at the top of the list. The list is more like:
- Good schools - Reasonable commute - square footage - outdoor space
And everywhere you can find that it's going to cost you in the NYC metro. If during the home inspection you discover the rotting shingles, you can try to negotiate a lower price during contract review. And if not, well, there's a line of people looking to leave their junior 1BR unit in a crumbling apartment building right behind you who are either more desperate, less knowledgeable, or simply have enough access to funds to on hand to make their own repairs.
Try being a stay at home dad. Everyone gives you crap. I will never forget the MOL poster who said she would never let her kid go on a play date at a house with a stay at home Dad. I literally fealt like crying at that point, thinking my life choices were ruining my kids lives (my youngest was 6 months then so I wasn’t getting much sleep).
My kids are older than yours (and Dave's) and yes, being a stay-at-home dad was isolating. I have several stay-at-home mom friends and thought I was going to have a built-in social group but they never thought to include me and I had to make my own way. On the other hand, the PTA, Preschool Board, and some other volunteer groups were quite happy to put me to work when the kids got a bit older, and I made new friends once this kids were in school.
Really sorry to hear that things have not changed. I imagine with more two-income families, it is even more challenging now.
But what I don't understand is that this seems to be what these young supposed "hipsters" want. They want bland, suburban tract houses all taken from the same cookie cutter box? They could get that for a lot less elsewhere, and there wouldn't be rotting shingles under the bland exterior.
Sucker born every minute I guess ...
I think most people would prefer a house with more character, but it's not at the top of the list. The list is more like:
- Good schools - Reasonable commute - square footage - outdoor space
And everywhere you can find that it's going to cost you in the NYC metro. If during the home inspection you discover the rotting shingles, you can try to negotiate a lower price during contract review. And if not, well, there's a line of people looking to leave their junior 1BR unit in a crumbling apartment building right behind you who are either more desperate, less knowledgeable, or simply have enough access to funds to on hand to make their own repairs.
There is an aesthetic now that runs towards white walls and trim and open floor plans, it's on all the home sites and instas.
Here's the current definition of hipster, as per Wikipedia. Surprised the author of the article would want to move to a place with a surfeit of such individuals:
"The 21st century hipster is a subculture that is defined by claims to authenticity and uniqueness yet, ironically, is notably lacking in authenticity and conforms to a collective style. It embodies a particular ethic of consumption which seeks to commodify the idea of rebellion or counterculture, and fashion is one of the major markers of hipster identity.[1][2][3] Members of the subculture typically do not self-identify as hipsters,[4] and the word hipster is often used as a pejorative for someone who is pretentious or overly concerned with appearing trendy.[5] Stereotypical elements include vintage clothes and other non-mainstream fashion, skinny jeans, checked shirts, an ironicmoustache or full beard, and big glasses.[6]The subculture is broadly associated with indie and alternative music. In the United States it is mostly associated with perceived upper-middle-class whiteyoung adults who gentrify urban areas.[7][2][8][9]The term hipster in its present usage first appeared in the 1990s and became particularly prominent in the late 2000s and early 2010s,[10] being derived from the earlier hipster movements of the 1940s.[11]
I think most people would prefer a house with more character, but it's not at the top of the list. The list is more like:
- Good schools - Reasonable commute - square footage - outdoor space
And everywhere you can find that it's going to cost you in the NYC metro. If during the home inspection you discover the rotting shingles, you can try to negotiate a lower price during contract review. And if not, well, there's a line of people looking to leave their junior 1BR unit in a crumbling apartment building right behind you who are either more desperate, less knowledgeable, or simply have enough access to funds to on hand to make their own repairs.
If people really want good schools, reasonable commute square footage, and outdoor space then any of these houses I mentioned would have "fit the bill" without being turned into stamped-from-the-same-machine copies of each other. And they'd likely spend a good deal less money in the long run by doing the fixes right the first time themselves. Basically the flippers are hiding deep flaws, maybe fixing some cosmetic issues. But like I said this isn't new and has been going on for years. Probably as long as there have been properties to sell.
It just surprises me that this self-consciously "cool" demographic would go for the all-the-same type of look. But per jasmo's post, maybe not surprising. Evidently it's a case of "we're all individuals here."
This isn't a diatribe against flippers. In general fine, whatever, if you need to sell your house then do what you need to do. If the realtors can make a buck, OK.
Here's the current definition of hipster, as per Wikipedia. Surprised the author of the article would want to move to a place with a surfeit of such individuals:
"The 21st century hipster is a subculture that is defined by claims to authenticity and uniqueness yet, ironically, is notably lacking in authenticity and conforms to a collective style. It embodies a particular ethic of consumption which seeks to commodify the idea of rebellion or counterculture, and fashion is one of the major markers of hipster identity.[1][2][3] Members of the subculture typically do not self-identify as hipsters,[4] and the word hipster is often used as a pejorative for someone who is pretentious or overly concerned with appearing trendy.[5] Stereotypical elements include vintage clothes and other non-mainstream fashion, skinny jeans, checked shirts, an ironicmoustache or full beard, and big glasses.[6]The subculture is broadly associated with indie and alternative music. In the United States it is mostly associated with perceived upper-middle-class whiteyoung adults who gentrify urban areas.[7][2][8][9]The term hipster in its present usage first appeared in the 1990s and became particularly prominent in the late 2000s and early 2010s,[10] being derived from the earlier hipster movements of the 1940s.[11]
I think most people would prefer a house with more character, but it's not at the top of the list. The list is more like:
- Good schools - Reasonable commute - square footage - outdoor space
And everywhere you can find that it's going to cost you in the NYC metro. If during the home inspection you discover the rotting shingles, you can try to negotiate a lower price during contract review. And if not, well, there's a line of people looking to leave their junior 1BR unit in a crumbling apartment building right behind you who are either more desperate, less knowledgeable, or simply have enough access to funds to on hand to make their own repairs.
If people really want good schools, reasonable commute square footage, and outdoor space then any of these houses I mentioned would have "fit the bill" without being turned into stamped-from-the-same-machine copies of each other. And they'd likely spend a good deal less money in the long run by doing the fixes right the first time themselves. Basically the flippers are hiding deep flaws, maybe fixing some cosmetic issues. But like I said this isn't new and has been going on for years. Probably as long as there have been properties to sell.
It just surprises me that this self-consciously "cool" demographic would go for the all-the-same type of look. But per jasmo's post, maybe not surprising. Evidently it's a case of "we're all individuals here."
This isn't a diatribe against flippers. In general fine, whatever, if you need to sell your house then do what you need to do. If the realtors can make a buck, OK.
Beyond "buy a house" or "stay in your current apartment in the city", what influence do buyers -- hipsters or not -- have here? As I've said, I myself am in the market -- if you know of some town that has good schools, access to the city AND has a stock of charming houses where flippers haven't hidden flaws and is at least as affordable as SOMA and W. Orange, please let me know.
Beyond "buy a house" or "stay in your current apartment in the city", what influence do buyers -- hipsters or not -- have here? As I've said, I myself am in the market -- if you know of some town that has good schools, access to the city AND has a stock of charming houses where flippers haven't hidden flaws and is at least as affordable as SOMA and W. Orange, please let me know.
I'd say "don't buy houses like that" but as you note they're few & far between. The flippers get to them first. I'm not blaming anybody, certainly not you - though evidently the market is such that it favors the all-the-same, squash out the individual approach.
But in contrast, same street as one of the flipped houses i mentioned (i.e. my street), another house also sold recently but was NOT sold by flippers. It was on the market longer. It sold for more than $150K less than the house that had been flipped. But it is probably a much better house.
I knew the owners of the flipped house pretty well, and the non-flipped house to say "hi," we'd all been in the neighborhood >20 years. I know the flipped-house owners had some trouble in recent years and house maintenance wasn't a priority or even possible given their situation. OTOH the non-flip owners were meticulous home-owners who took super good care of their property. I would expect it would need some updating of interior colors or whatever but would not expect to see major issues in it.
So that's just two houses. But maybe there are some other stories like that out there, I hope so for your sake.
It's like chicken-egg. People want to buy houses that are less $ and more character but can't because they've all been bought up by flippers. You'd think the market would adjust but I guess maybe I'm under-estimating how many people have plenty of $ and don't really mind if their houses all look the same.
Beyond "buy a house" or "stay in your current apartment in the city", what influence do buyers -- hipsters or not -- have here? As I've said, I myself am in the market -- if you know of some town that has good schools, access to the city AND has a stock of charming houses where flippers haven't hidden flaws and is at least as affordable as SOMA and W. Orange, please let me know.
I'd say "don't buy houses like that" but as you note they're few & far between. The flippers get to them first. I'm not blaming anybody, certainly not you - though evidently the market is such that it favors the all-the-same, squash out the individual approach.
But in contrast, same street as one of the flipped houses i mentioned (i.e. my street), another house also sold recently but was NOT sold by flippers. It was on the market longer. It sold for more than $150K less than the house that had been flipped. But it is probably a much better house.
I knew the owners of the flipped house pretty well, and the non-flipped house to say "hi," we'd all been in the neighborhood >20 years. I know the flipped-house owners had some trouble in recent years and house maintenance wasn't a priority or even possible given their situation. OTOH the non-flip owners were meticulous home-owners who took super good care of their property. I would expect it would need some updating of interior colors or whatever but would not expect to see major issues in it.
So that's just two houses. But maybe there are some other stories like that out there, I hope so for your sake.
It's like chicken-egg. People want to buy houses that are less $ and more character but can't because they've all been bought up by flippers. You'd think the market would adjust but I guess maybe I'm under-estimating how many people have plenty of $ and don't really mind if their houses all look the same.
Thanks -- yes, I'm sure we'll eventually find something. Might take a few more months, or even longer, but, again, I realize what a privileged position I'm in for this to be one of my problems.
Again, not the politics thread, so I won't harp too much on this, but I think the housing situation is a good example of where it's easier to focus on individual actors (hipsters! flippers!) when what's actually happening is on a much larger, system-wide level. Worth reflecting on questions like "what does it say that even people who are succeeding in this economy are having such a hard time finding and affording quality housing?"
I believe the top Zillow prices are achieved by people staging their houses, with prepping and painting every room, redoing kitchen and bathroom, removing clutter and showing certain furniture, etc. When it was time to sell our house, it went about 10 percent below Zillow to avoid months of work to achieve hipster perfection.
Thanks -- yes, I'm sure we'll eventually find something. Might take a few more months, or even longer, but, again, I realize what a privileged position I'm in for this to be one of my problems.
Again, not the politics thread, so I won't harp too much on this, but I think the housing situation is a good example of where it's easier to focus on individual actors (hipsters! flippers!) when what's actually happening is on a much larger, system-wide level. Worth reflecting on questions like "what does it say that even people who are succeeding in this economy are having such a hard time finding and affording quality housing?"
Should probably start a new thread about this, but...
Last Thursday I attended a virtual conference on Accessory Dwelling Units (ADUs) presented by the Regional Plan Association.
Our own Sheena Collum of South Orange and Dean Daffis of Maplewood were two of the three panelists. Both excelled!
Sheena is laser-focused on housing and helping diversify the housing options in our communities. Nobody wanted to follow after Sheena’s commentary - she was *that* impressive!
Dean was equally so. He has worked tirelessly, starting with looking at options for seniors to stay in our communities, broadening to other areas of social justice in housing.
Maplewood is a bit farther ahead in modeling best practices, basing new ordinances on successful programs in Princeton.
If we want to “walk-the-walk” on housing affordability and social justice, we should learn more and follow their leads.
My kids are older than yours (and Dave's) and yes, being a stay-at-home dad was isolating.
When I was on my way out of Mother's and More as my kids got older, I vaguely recall an issue of a new stay-at-home Dad who was requesting to join being told that the group was only for mothers based on the rules from the National M&M. I think some moms were trying to include him at playdates, and then it was not allowed to be an official M&M playdate. I don't know if there was a happy or sad ending, but I remember being extremely surprised that it was even an issue.
My kids are older than yours (and Dave's) and yes, being a stay-at-home dad was isolating.
When I was on my way out of Mother's and More as my kids got older, I vaguely recall an issue of a new stay-at-home Dad who was requesting to join being told that the group was only for mothers based on the rules from the National M&M. I think some moms were trying to include him at playdates, and then it was not allowed to be an official M&M playdate. I don't know if there was a happy or sad ending, but I remember being extremely surprised that it was even an issue.
This reminds me of when they wouldn't let me join the Feminist's Alliance in college.
My kids are older than yours (and Dave's) and yes, being a stay-at-home dad was isolating.
When I was on my way out of Mother's and More as my kids got older, I vaguely recall an issue of a new stay-at-home Dad who was requesting to join being told that the group was only for mothers based on the rules from the National M&M. I think some moms were trying to include him at playdates, and then it was not allowed to be an official M&M playdate. I don't know if there was a happy or sad ending, but I remember being extremely surprised that it was even an issue.
This reminds me of when they wouldn't let me join the Feminist's Alliance in college.
Don't get me started on how the la leche folk made me feel
Mine is missing most info, and I didn't add it in or claim our house (I assume we would get realtor-type spam if we did). So, it's very possible that the Zestimate is way off base because it doesn't have most of the info.