Meet the Mets (For Mets Fans Only!)

The hell with it...bring up Tebow!

Worse season ever? I think you could make a case for that. We were expected to, at the very least, compete for a Wild Card.

Cancelling YouTubeTV today. Back to the transistor radio for me. It's nice to sit outside on summer nights and listen... 

All they need to do to cement this as the worst season ever is keep Reyes and trade Flores.

Soul_29 said:
Back to the transistor radio for me. It's nice to sit outside on summer nights and listen... 

Thank you, Commish...you just evoked memories of Bob Murphy and happy recaps. I definitely needed that.

Soul_29 said:
Worse season ever? I think you could make a case for that. We were expected to, at the very least, compete for a Wild Card.
Cancelling YouTubeTV today. Back to the transistor radio for me. It's nice to sit outside on summer nights and listen... 

 Gotta say, as bad as the Mets are, I vastly prefer listening to Howie and Josh than almost any other available option--especially those execrable nitwits the Yankees have on the air.

Trade deGrom now.  Time for him to go.  He is having a marvelous year, and there are very few starting pitchers available on the market so far.  He is 30 years old--young enough to provide a contender with a few more solid years, old enough to be at risk of blowing out a tendon (again).

Get as many prospects as they can and begin the rebuild.

For that matter, time to trade my favorite met as well.  So long Asdrubal Cabrera!

mfpark said:
Trade deGrom now.  Time for him to go.  He is having a marvelous year, and there are very few starting pitchers available on the market so far.  He is 30 years old--young enough to provide a contender with a few more solid years, old enough to be at risk of blowing out a tendon (again).
Get as many prospects as they can and begin the rebuild.
For that matter, time to trade my favorite met as well.  So long Asdrubal Cabrera!

terrible idea. 

deGromm is the only thing on this team worth watching, and trading him away will weaken the team further, with no guarantee that we get anything of value in return.  At best it's a wash -- weaken the starting rotation while adding a good position player.  At worst, the trade is a bust and deGromm goes someplace else and dominates.  Sure, there's a risk he gets injured again.  But there's a risk that any player, including one that a team trades for might get injured.

Any Mets fan of a certain age thinks about trading deGromm and can't help but thinking of the worst day in Mets history, when they traded Seaver for a whole collection of can't miss prospects.  Who turned out at best to be journeymen.  And the team was terrible for another 7 seasons. 

ml1 said:

mfpark said:
Trade deGrom now.  Time for him to go.  He is having a marvelous year, and there are very few starting pitchers available on the market so far.  He is 30 years old--young enough to provide a contender with a few more solid years, old enough to be at risk of blowing out a tendon (again).
Get as many prospects as they can and begin the rebuild.
For that matter, time to trade my favorite met as well.  So long Asdrubal Cabrera!

terrible idea. 
deGromm is the only thing on this team worth watching, and trading him away will weaken the team further, with no guarantee that we get anything of value in return.  At best it's a wash -- weaken the starting rotation while adding a good position player.  At worst, the trade is a bust and deGromm goes someplace else and dominates.  Sure, there's a risk he gets injured again.  But there's a risk that any player, including one that a team trades for might get injured.
Any Mets fan of a certain age thinks about trading deGromm and can't help but thinking of the worst day in Mets history, when they traded Seaver for a whole collection of can't miss prospects.  Who turned out at best to be journeymen.  And the team was terrible for another 7 seasons. 

 As a baseball fan of a preferably uncertain age, I remember this well (as well as the Mets being the Kansas City A's of the early 70's where seemingly every prospect they let go flourished elsewhere--Amos Otis, Nolan Ryan, etc).

However, I don't see how it is an option for the Mets to stand pat and not make major moves to restock their system.  They have almost no one else of significant trade value except for Syndegaard and he is the one I would opt to keep.

There are risks no matter what the Mets do.  deGrom could flame his arm out after this great year.  He did have ulnar surgery two years ago, although he was the only pitcher to remain healthy all last year.  He is controllable for two more years, yet he is 30 years old.

Syndegaard is controllable for three more years and is only 25.  Keep him, trade deGrom, and hope some of those prospects become solid players in a year or two.

Think about it--who else at the MLB level is trade worthy for good prospects?  Conforto has been injury plagued and has had only one good year out of the last three.  It could be that last year was his career year.  Rosario is decent but hardly worthy of a lot of talent in return.  Dom Smith looks like he is going to be a bust.  Cabrera will have some takers on a short-term rental, but at his age he is hardly going to bring a bunch of prospects in return.

The rebuild has to start somewhere. The Mets are reluctant to spend big money on free agents. As much as I hate seeing deGrom go, it isn't a bad idea considering what will be the likely haul for him- a boatload of major-league ready prospects. If deGrom was Thor's age, then there's no way we should part company. But at 30, still youngish with a few more good years...he'll be on everyone's short list. The Mets need to stock their farm system which is among the worst in baseball. 

mfpark said:

 As a baseball fan of a preferably uncertain age, I remember this well (as well as the Mets being the Kansas City A's of the early 70's where seemingly every prospect they let go flourished elsewhere--Amos Otis, Nolan Ryan, etc).

However, I don't see how it is an option for the Mets to stand pat and not make major moves to restock their system.  They have almost no one else of significant trade value except for Syndegaard and he is the one I would opt to keep.
There are risks no matter what the Mets do.  deGrom could flame his arm out after this great year.  He did have ulnar surgery two years ago, although he was the only pitcher to remain healthy all last year.  He is controllable for two more years, yet he is 30 years old.
Syndegaard is controllable for three more years and is only 25.  Keep him, trade deGrom, and hope some of those prospects become solid players in a year or two.
Think about it--who else at the MLB level is trade worthy for good prospects?  Conforto has been injury plagued and has had only one good year out of the last three.  It could be that last year was his career year.  Rosario is decent but hardly worthy of a lot of talent in return.  Dom Smith looks like he is going to be a bust.  Cabrera will have some takers on a short-term rental, but at his age he is hardly going to bring a bunch of prospects in return.

 why do they need to do anything now?  They have no urgency.  I'd say get Syndergaard back and prove he's healthy.  Have Wheeler and Matz take the rest of the season to prove their recent success isn't a fluke.  Then go into the offseason with plans to trade a couple of those guys when you can get a good return for them.  Keep deGromm and one or two of the other starters, trade two others for position players, and sign some help for the bullpen.  If the team got some bullpen help and moved Gsellman and Lugo to the rotation with deGromm and Wheeler/Matz/Syndergaard, they'd just need a couple more bats in the lineup and they'd be contenders again.

But to make a knee jerk move now because the season is a disaster would be a mistake.

here's a guy on MLB.com arguing strongly for deGrom to be traded:

It might not be a Top 5 prospect for deGrom, just because the teams with those players (like the Blue Jays, Reds, White Sox and Padres) aren't ready to make such a move. But it's easy to see them looking to Milwaukee, led by infielder Keston Hiura (No. 30) and righty Corbin Burnes (No. 56), who was just called up and could step into the Mets' pitching plans immediately. Maybe you bet on blocked young ready-now outfielders like Domingo Santana, Keon Broxton or Brett Phillips. 
 https://www.mlb.com/news/why-the-mets-should-trade-jacob-degrom/c-285145866

even this guy, super bullish on a trade is saying it wouldn't likely be for a Top 5 prospect.  I think it would be insane to trade him for the 30th and 56th best prospects in baseball.  Maybe the 30th and 56th best current big leaguers.  but not prospects.

Trading deGrom just feels wrong. 

I am putting my faith in the GM Commissariat to be able to wrangle a top five prospect from some desperately over-stocked and well-managed team.  It is all part of Sandy's wily Five Year Plan!

mfpark said:
I am putting my faith in the GM Commissariat to be able to wrangle a top five prospect from some desperately over-stocked and well-managed team.  It is all part of Sandy's wily Five Year Plan!

 As a Yankee lurker, who wants DeGrom badly, how about Frazier, Drury and German?

I think any team that wants the best pitcher in the NL needs to give up their top 2 prospects at least.  They Yanks should be offering Torres if they want deGrom.  You can't get something for nothing.  

Wow. A number 30 and 56 for deGrom? That's pretty lame for someone who would is arguably a top 3 pitcher who would easily have 10+ wins with a sub 2.00 ERA.  If that's all the Mets can get for deGrom, then I'd keep him. 

NotoriousEAM said:
Wow. A number 30 and 56 for deGrom? That's pretty lame for someone who would is arguably a top 3 pitcher who would easily have 10+ wins with a sub 2.00 ERA.  If that's all the Mets can get for deGrom, then I'd keep him. 

 If they cannot get more for him they deserve to all be sent to the Gulag.

Dennis_Seelbach said:

mfpark said:
I am putting my faith in the GM Commissariat to be able to wrangle a top five prospect from some desperately over-stocked and well-managed team.  It is all part of Sandy's wily Five Year Plan!

 As a Yankee lurker, who wants DeGrom badly, how about Frazier, Drury and German?

 So you want Cashman fired, eh?  Might as well throw in Sheffield.

Dennis_Seelbach said:

mfpark said:
I am putting my faith in the GM Commissariat to be able to wrangle a top five prospect from some desperately over-stocked and well-managed team.  It is all part of Sandy's wily Five Year Plan!

 As a Yankee lurker, who wants DeGrom badly, how about Frazier, Drury and German?

 We already have one Yankee Frazier too many.

one of the things that a few proponents of trading deGrom have pointed out was how the Mets traded R.A. Dickey after a Cy Young season and got Syndergaard.  But people forget that the deal was primarily for d'Arnaud, and Syndergaard was the less-heralded prospect.  Just goes to show how wrong you can be when trying to evaluate the top prospects, even when they are near MLB-ready.

mfpark said:

Dennis_Seelbach said:

mfpark said:
I am putting my faith in the GM Commissariat to be able to wrangle a top five prospect from some desperately over-stocked and well-managed team.  It is all part of Sandy's wily Five Year Plan!

 As a Yankee lurker, who wants DeGrom badly, how about Frazier, Drury and German?

 So you want Cashman fired, eh?  Might as well throw in Sheffield.

 Done.....A great deal for both sides.

Yanks get a Cy Young contender, Mets get a bag of balls, a fungo bat and a Gatorade cooler in return.  Yankees fans are so entitled they think they should get the Mets' best player and not have to give up anything of value.

sheesh.

ml1 said:
Yanks get a Cy Young contender, Mets get a bag of balls, a fungo bat and a Gatorade cooler in return.  Yankees fans are so entitled they think they should get the Mets' best player and not have to give up anything of value.
sheesh.

 OK...No Torres, Judge, Sanchez. Put together a package you would accept.

you take those guys off the table and there's nothing among position players that would make it worth it for the Mets. 

When you're making a trade for an ace, there needs to be at least one potential All-Star in the package.  Quantity does not make up for quality.

Agreed, I want Torres, not a bunch of guys being pushed out of their jobs by young studs.  I don't want a catcher.  They are too fragile.

give us Torres, Hicks and a prospect and maybe it starts to make sense. 

ml1 said:
give us Torres, Hicks and a prospect and maybe it starts to make sense. 

 NO!

At the risk of opening the floodgates to all the reasons Cole Hamels at 30 was no Jacob DeGrom, he got the Phillies a young catcher (Jorge Alfaro) who may or may not become an All-Star, a young No. 4 outfielder (Nick Williams) who's been valuable this season as the only productive bat off the bench, and a young pitcher (Jerad Eickhoff) who's an innings-eater at the end of the rotation. Plus another potential workhorse they haven't given up on, an arm that didn't pan out, and a contract they ate.

I'd do it all over again. You can try to hit the exacta with a couple of prospects or, since you're rebuilding a team, you can go broad and increase your chances of acquiring useful pieces. I like the way the Phils went broad. 

(Then again, to make it to Citizens Bank Park, you almost have to go Broad.)

The trick here is that the Yanks don't really need degrom.  Of course all the fans want him because he is the best available, but a good 3rd starter would be fine for them.   And of course Yankee fans won't give good to get good.

Dennis_Seelbach said:

ml1 said:
give us Torres, Hicks and a prospect and maybe it starts to make sense. 

 NO!

 that's why it's not happening. Yankees don't want to pay full value. 

The trio you proposed actually leaves the Mets worse off for the future. Frazier would be 4th OF on their depth chart. Drury is only marginally better than the likes of Wilmer Flores, and German is am enormous step down from deGrom. 

You can't get something for nothing. A trade has to work for both teams.