Forcing the Sale of a Jointly Owned Home

If you, or your parents can, would it by financially feasible to just get an appraiser and buy him out? It seems like it would save you and your parents a lot of stress to have your grandkids/nephews provided for without having to deal with ll the headaches this guy is bringing. At the worst, its an investment that you and your parents make that might lose money, but you get tremendous peace of mind by not having to deal with all the stress this situation brings.

Its not a desired option. He'll wind up getting more $ that way, my parents will get less and be stuck with all of the burden/bills involved with the sale of the house (realtor fees, closing costs, any repairs). As it is , they are getting screwed over because they were the sole source of the deposit f $50k but will still have to slit 50-50 with him. The sad fact is that the house really does have to be sold because my sister wont be able to cover even 1/2 of it with the reduced child support she'll get after June when eldest turns 18. It is doable now with her income, the larger child support and some help from my parents. It won't be doable after June so she does have to move. The timing and agreement was set up with all of this in mind so its a shame he has to be such a pr&^* and push for a change of just a few months. It was a fairly well-devised plan. Maybe he'll see he's being a jerk.

shoshannah said:

dave said:

Wow. What company is this that underwrites the legal costs of private civil disputes?

It's called a prepaid legal plan, and a lot of companies have it. It's for routine things like real estate transactions, wills, basic legal advice, etc. Usually not for big things like medical malpractice, product liability, etc.

As pointed out, the pre-paid legal covers the cost of routine stuff. It may offer a discount on major legal problems but problems like initiating/defending lawsuits and criminal defense will still cost $$$$$, even with the hourly discount. It would still cost the parents enough that it wouldn't be worth their fee. They may pay to issue a threatening letter but beyond that....

Why doesn't someone stand up to this bully.

All you need is a delay of a few months. Everyone needs to insist on the original plan. There is nothing he can do.

Your parents should refuse to sign anything until they are ready. Can you imagine that bastard appearing before a judge and saying "I want to force the sale of the home my ex wife and children are living in. My in laws put up the deposit for the home, my ex wife is paying the mortgage, but I want to disrupt the lives of my children so I can get my $10,000 and move on with my new woman and baby.

A case like that would take a loooong time, would cost him money he doesn't have and he could lose. If he tries to force the sale the legal proceedings will take a lot longer than if they abide by the original agreement.

Your parents and everyone else needs to stand up to him and say they will sign when they are ready. If he continues to harass them they should threaten a restraining order.

If they are anywhere near this area the house will bring the highest price in February or March. The house can go on the market March 1 and you can ask for a 4 month closing. That will allow the son to finish his school year.

Your sister can also limit the showing times - say during the day while the kids are in school and weekends between certain hours.

Whose name is the mortgage in. IF it is the ex husbands name alone the wife should consider not paying the mortgage. It is his legal responsibility. Child support is also his legal responsibility. ONe has no relation to the other. If the mortgage is in joint name you should look into the wife paying only half. I have no idea how this works and that might not be viable but its worth looking into. If the ex husband wants to move on and buy another house, non payment of the mortgage is a very powerful threat. Foreclosure takes a long long time. The ex wife could live "rent free" and it would screw his credit rating and even a few late payments or non payments would prevent him from being approved for a mortgage for at least a year, maybe longer.

So, if the ex husband is being a real bastard , and if ex wife is not on the mortgage or doesn't care about her credit rating she should consider not paying the mortgage AND on top of that the parents could refuse to sell for at least a while. She could live rent free for a year or two. Ex husband would have to wait or go to a lot of expense to get them out AND he would have to pick up the payment of the mortgage or see his credit destroyed. He might threaten non payment of child support, but NJ takes a very very harsh attitude towards that - and non payment of the mortgage would have no bearing on whether he owed child support or not.

FInally, do not expect to have to bring things " up to code" to sell. State law requires fire safety be installed ( smoke & carbon monoxide detectors and a fire extinguisher) but no more than that. Some municipalities have requirements but they are minimal. When time comes to sell just disclose what is wrong and leave it to the buyer to fix.

I

reading this over - I suggest you insist on the original timeline. And, if he pushes it threaten non payment of the mortgage. You hold most of the cards here.

Random thought re: deposit. If parents put in $50 k and $25 of that now benefits him as 50% owner, won't there be gift tax to deal with? They are going to need a good accountant in addition to lawyer!

I agree with you sarahzm on everything. The parents are scared- they don't understand child support and think he is "paying her mortgage" by giving her $. I keep telling them they have no connection- the spouse receives that support whether she lives in an owned home, a rental or a cardboard box- its up to her how to spend the $ for the children's living expenses.

As for code- there was an addition/change to the house - conversion of a garage to a bedroom. It has a window, door to interior and exterior of the house and a closet and should be "code" but his family came and did the work and I don't believe permits were ever pulled so there will be some stuff he has to work through there. Either converting it back or permits to file.

I will continue to advise they just tell him they will be sticking with the original plan and will be happy to sign off to list the house in March or April as agreed upon with a target June close date. Period. if he doesn't like that approach, he can feel free to start legal proceedings.

They do not have go bring it to code if they stipulate that the sale is "as is." I see that all the time.

He's just full of hot air. Just show him you are not afraid of him. Here are some scenarios:

1. Where are your sister and her kids moving to? If a rental in the same town/school district, what's the difference if you close before the end of the school year?

2. This house won't sell in a day or a week. With the condition it's in, it could take a good long while. If it's put on the market mid-November, the rest of the calendar year is nothing because of holidays. January and February, hardly anyone looks. Just tell any potential buyers you stipulate a June closing.

3. In the unlikely event that you put the house on the market tomorrow and it goes into contract on Monday and closes in February, many school districts are flexible about graduating seniors in this situation. Highly unlikely they'd kick him out of the district for the last four months.

4. Even with scenario #3 above, you work out an arrangement with the new owners to rent the place until June.

actually, if they did work without permits and the town catches them, or if there are open permits they will be required to obtain and close out permits to transfer title. Even an "as is" sale won't change that. Best thing to do is to ask a local realtor what kind of inspections the municipality requires. Some municipalities only require that open permits be closed out and a fire safety inspection is done by the fire department. Others send an inspector to make sure the bedrooms bathrooms and number of rooms match what is in the tax records. A local realtor would be able to tell you.

Experience in the same county a few towns over was that the additions had to be "legalized", new taxes assessed. The parents wanted to sell their home years ago and they had a lot of hassle and expense from the town over an extra bedroom added in the early 1970s. So, we are expecting that there may some permits needed, etc on the house. if not, that's fine.

Sadly, she can't afford to stay in her town. I agree and am almost 100% sure the schools would allow the kids to stay put and finish out the year but how will they get there? They'd have to be dropped off and picked up from 2 different schools every day for months. the father won't/can't do it, the mother won't/can't do it- the grandparents would have to do that every day- unfair to them- they have enough on their plate so they are trying to avoid all that.

I agree that the parents can look "flexible" by saying, sure, let's compromise go ahead start all the work and get it listed as early into the new year as you can knowing it will take a while to get all this moving. I think it may sell quickly though even in poor condition- its a desirable corner, oversized lot and someone may just want to knock it down. they could build a big one on that lot.

just an fyi,. Same county is meaningless in NJ. Each municipality has its own rules. For instance, south orange has requirements that Maplewood does not. Maplewood has very different requirements than Millburn. You really need to known the specific requirements for your own municipality.

Also, in general a corner lot is significantly less desirable than a non corner lot. Setback requirements on corner lots make the building envelope much smaller an end users find the lack of privacy on most corner lots less appealing. That said, it really depends on the property. How fast it sells will be determined by the price. Price it high and it could sit for months. Price it accurately for what it has to offer and it will sell quickly. Be aware that properties that need work sell at very significant discounts to properties that are in good shape.

Another thought. Why can't your parents demand their deposit back upon sale of the house. That would be fair.

I do not understand why this wasn't handled as part of the divorce, but they are all past that now. The judicial proceeding is called An action for Partition and Sale. If the ex files that type of suit, after the parents file their Answer, the Judge will probably hold a Conference with the attorneys. If the parents' attorney brings up the original plan the Judge will probably pressure the ex-husband to go along with it.

There is currently an suit like this between two brothers. The suit was filed in February of this year. Trial date is January, 2017. Essex County.

sarahzm said:

actually, if they did work without permits and the town catches them, or if there are open permits they will be required to obtain and close out permits to transfer title. Even an "as is" sale won't change that.

OK, I take it back. I thought "as it" meant "as is" regardless.

Just call his bluff. Doesn't sound like he's too sharp. By the time he gets it together and realizes how much it would cost to get a lawyer, the timing will work out for your sister.

LOST said:

I do not understand why this wasn't handled as part of the divorce, but they are all past that now. The judicial proceeding is called An action for Partition and Sale. If the ex files that type of suit, after the parents file their Answer, the Judge will probably hold a Conference with the attorneys. If the parents' attorney brings up the original plan the Judge will probably pressure the ex-husband to go along with it.

There is currently an suit like this between two brothers. The suit was filed in February of this year. Trial date is January, 2017. Essex County.

It's not a marital asset. It's not owned by one of the spouses.

I'm assuming you mean that she doesn't own any part. But her ex does own half. Depending on how long they were married, when it was purchased, etc, she may have had some legal claim even if she was not put on the deed.

she does not own any part nor is she entitled to any part. The divorce details are of no importance.

But is it possible that just the threat of trying to revisit the divorce agreement might be enough to make him back off? It doesn't matter that she wouldn't win, or that she wasn't even going to follow through by petitioning the court, just threaten to do it.

All she needs to do is to give him enough pause to back off for 6-8 months so the kid can finish school.

Is it at all possible to just sit down and talk with him? You mention that he seems to believe he'll do well financially when the house is sold, maybe lay out the paperwork showing him how much is owed on the mortgage and explaining that he is only entitled to half of what is left over AFTER the bank has been paid. I've met some pretty dumb people, so it is possible that he may have it in his head that he will get half the selling price and not even thought about the mortgage.

I was thinking. He might be subject to capital gains taxes (and so will your parents). It is not his/their primary residence. Therefore, they are not eligible for the exclusion to the basis for capital gains ($250k). 15% right off the top. Any experts out there who can chime in?

berkeley said:

Random thought re: deposit. If parents put in $50 k and $25 of that now benefits him as 50% owner, won't there be gift tax to deal with? They are going to need a good accountant in addition to lawyer!

Each parent can gift up to around $14k and each recipient can receive up to 14k per parent. 2 recipients + 2 givers = $56k threshold. Skip the accountant.

dave said:

Skip the accountant.

Or hire Dave...

dave said:

berkeley said:

Random thought re: deposit. If parents put in $50 k and $25 of that now benefits him as 50% owner, won't there be gift tax to deal with? They are going to need a good accountant in addition to lawyer!

Each parent can gift up to around $14k and each recipient can receive up to 14k per parent. 2 recipients + 2 givers = $56k threshold. Skip the accountant.

It may not be subject to any tax, but I believe that doing the gift splitting as described will require a gift tax return to be filed.