SOMA Black Parents Workshop Lawsuit

anectodal schmanectodotal.  This guy has already learned that all you need to do is file a lawsuit and this district will roll over and cower in a corner.  could have filed it on a cocktail napkin.  doesnt matter.

Not only that but insurance policies usually have exclusions for intentional wrongs.  Plus I doubt an insurance company is going to cave in easily to pay for forward looking  remedial things like tutors.

Formerlyjerseyjack said:th insurance company is com

peteglider said:

the district doesn’t really give a crap About being sued. The district is insured against suits (although I imagine there is a limit).  Sue us, and when we lose the insurance will pay the claims.  

So this action may Not be so unwelcome by the district  ( yes it’s mind boggling)

--- and you don't guess the premium is experience rated?

mem said:

The school is being blamed for AA kids not getting the same outcomes (grades?) as non-AA students?

That’s not my takeaway, but a reminder: It’s all there in the links at the start of this thread for anyone to read and draw conclusions.

Disturbing that so many are dismissive of the situation that AA have at our schools.  You're telling me that there is zero discrimination?

What is the best way to harness the power of this lawsuit in a way that will benefit students who are starting out now?

j_r said:

What is the best way to harness the power of this lawsuit in a way that will benefit students who are starting out now?

A well executed plan to realign elementary schools to balance them BOTH racially/ethnically and socio-economically. While always controversial it does seem to have a real positive impact long term on achievement gaps. 

So, are you saying our teachers are racist?

krugle said:

Disturbing that so many are dismissive of the situation that AA have at our schools.  You're telling me that there is zero discrimination?

mem said:

So, are you saying our teachers are racist?

krugle said:

Disturbing that so many are dismissive of the situation that AA have at our schools.  You're telling me that there is zero discrimination?

I have witnessed good intentions evolve into differential treatment -- likely due to unconscious bias -- especially in terms of discipline of Black boys.

A large public institution is a beaurocratic institution. When a parent who knows how to play the system, more likely to be higher socioeconomic and Caucasian shows up at a school after an incident with the implicit intention to be a squeeky wheel the incident is resolved quietly and off the record. When a parent can not afford to be out of work so can not go to the school or is not native English speaking or has no influence to impact the process the resolution becomes something on the record. 

Those disparate trips through the system early on snowball because the record is different from that point forward impacting how every future incident is handled. 

mem said:

So, are you saying our teachers are racist?

krugle said:

Disturbing that so many are dismissive of the situation that AA have at our schools.  You're telling me that there is zero discrimination?

I’m racist. At the risk of painting others with my own flaws, I’d be surprised if they weren’t, too.

ska said:

j_r said:

What is the best way to harness the power of this lawsuit in a way that will benefit students who are starting out now?

A well executed plan to realign elementary schools to balance them BOTH racially/ethnically and socio-economically. While always controversial it does seem to have a real positive impact long term on achievement gaps. 

One additional challenge: h4daniel recalled that Brian Osborne, when he was superintendent, had said a significant number of students don’t enter the district until high school. I don’t know how many newcomers there are at CHS, but the 10-point shift in racial percentages* between Columbia and the middle schools (according to figures in the lawsuit) suggests a degree of flux from the student bodies in the earlier grades.

* It can’t all be flight, because average grade sizes drop only from 522 in middle school to 483 in high school — not enough to account for the swing.

Personally, I'd give a lot of weight to opinions backed up by success or failure stories from other school systems.  This is an old, knotty problem that seems to beset the whole country.   Other school systems have tried things, sometimes under the coercive force of lawsuits.  What works?  When you'r talking about possibly increasing the tax burden significantly or imposing inconveniences, if not wrenching changes, like perhaps making a kid who can now walk to elementary school take a bus across a town, you ought to be putting real evidence on the table that your ideas really work.     

bub said:

Other school systems have tried things, sometimes under the coercive force of lawsuits.  What works? 

The Black Parents Workshop often points to Rockville Centre. Whatever the differences and/or similarities between the districts, the longtime high school principal there, Carol Burris — who opposed leveling, tracking and the Common Core before retiring a few years ago to expand her advocacy of alternatives — has stressed in interviews that the model requires time and care to institute successfully.

What model? This district has been talking about deleveling, Rockville Center, differentiation, etc for YEARS! Just do it. It’s not brain surgery.

DaveSchmidt said:
bub said:

Other school systems have tried things, sometimes under the coercive force of lawsuits.  What works? 

The Black Parents Workshop often points to Rockville Centre. Whatever the differences and/or similarities between the districts, the longtime high school principal there, Carol Burris — who opposed leveling, tracking and the Common Core before retiring a few years ago to expand her advocacy of alternatives — has stressed in interviews that the model requires time and care to institute successfully.

It is important to remember this as the demographics and economics of Rockville Centre's high school are much more similar to Millburn High than Columbia.

Of course, none of these metrics are perfect, but this website indicates that Black students, who comprise 6 percent of Rockville Centre's high school population, are not testing as well as other groups and are also suspended at a much higher rate.

According to this site, 18 percent of the school's Black students have been suspended, nine times the rate of White students and more than double the state average. Columbia's rate is 10 percent.

At Columbia, 13 percent of Black students take AP courses. In Rockville Centre, it's 5 percent. 

Graduation rates are equivalent.

Low income students are listed as 25 percent of the Columbia population compared to 13 percent in Rockville Centre.

https://www.greatschools.org/new-york/rockville-centre/3431-South-Side-High-School/#Race_ethnicity*Discipline_and_attendance

Max people settle lawsuits all the time, even when they expect to win.  Sometimes settlement is more cost effective than a long drawn out fight. 

max_weisenfeld said:

Patient?  Bear in mind this is the second lawsuit.  The district settled one four years ago with a consent decree.  It is the failure to fulfill the conditions of the consent decree that has triggered this lawsuit.  If you think this lawsuit is frivolous or self serving, just remember that the district did not settle the previous suit because they thought they were going to win it. 

Can we please stop with the Rockville Centre comparisons?  Please?  It’s like treating a persistent rash.  

Because amongst a host of other flies in the ointment, I would note that Ms. Burris, et.al. needed a whole hell of a lot more than just time to make it (sorta kinda) work.  

ctrzaska said:

Because amongst a host of other flies in the ointment, I would note 

That modifier, and its subject, just made my wait after a canceled train a little merrier.

Glad I could help assuage just a wee bit of commuting pain with that.

Is anyone else curious why a resident of South Orange who is always clamoring that the school district needs more librarians is a party to this lawsuit that could potentially cost the taxpayers over $12M? (that could pay for a lot of librarians)

Source: Page 10 of the complaint at https://blackparentsworkshop.org/

This. And THIS is the reason why many black families like myself and others have chosen to send our children, especially boys, to private high schools. At our private high school, my child is an honors student, has never received a detention, has never been disciplined, and he is included and looked upon as a peer. Is it nirvana? It is not but what it isn't is a tool used to over discipline, mistreat and miseducate children of color. Columbia has lost a plethora of exceptionally bright students of color to private schools simply because the school won't adhere to fundamental changes and turn blind and deaf when problems are highlighted. When our son has CHS friends  over to the house, both black and white, and the white kids state that they don't get into trouble for the same infractions their black friends get into, THERE'S A PROBLEM. 

krugle said:

Welcome to MOL and this discussion, Foxee. 

My assumption is that the parties you’re singling out for exposure believe that the money could do a lot of good in other ways, too — ways that they might feel take precedence over hiring more librarians.

If I were having a conversion with them about the suit, yes, my curiosity — and nothing more than curiosity — might lead me to ask them how they’d suggest the district should balance the costs of those needs.

The whole IEP situation in MSO is beyond messed up.  First, you have the fight every step of the way to get one, and if you are lucky enough to get that far, you have to fight for every service you are entitled to.  The claim in the lawsuit could have been made by any number of families, black and white.

Its also not racially exclusive that the material is not challenging.  When my daughter was in SOMS, and in all Level 4 classes (back when they existed as a separate thing), I was not impressed by the rigor of what she was being taught.  She was making posters and cards and allowed to write with grammatical, syntax, and all other errors, and still received an A.  Kind of hard to motivate a kid to do well when she knows she will get an A for doing a sloppy job.  So again, this point could be made by black or white families in advanced or regular level classes.  There was a lot of dumbing down.

When we moved, my son was flagged for speech issues within 2 weeks of being here.  In MSO, I had unsuccessfully tried to get him an IEP in Kindergarten, because he was essentially non-verbal.  I was told that because he was not failing, it wasn't affecting him academically....even though he would not participate verbally in class.  Now that this child is in Middle school, he is not in Honors level classes, but in regular, which is where he belongs, but the coursework and rigor and challenges are way beyond what my daughter experienced as a middle schooler in honors classes at SOMS.

I agree that previously, leveling did lead to a form of discrimination.  Level 4 classes were usually the kids who were very bright and the average students who tried hard, and was majority white.  Level 3 and unleveled classes were basically warehouses for kids to learn or not at the child's discretion and were majority black.  Lots of time was spent on discipline and there were plenty of disruptions.  Now that the district has essentially deleveled by allowing choice, they are now confronting the real problem - that the curriculum isn't challenging to many students (black and white), there are kids who need IEPs but either don't receive them or the services they need (black and white) and that some kids are disengaged from the learning process and act out (black and white.. although black kids are primarily targeted for this).    

its not so much a racial issue, but an institutional issue, and it affects every kid in the district.  

Part of the issue is money, as in the district doesn't have the money to pay for all the special services that are needed.  The school funding formula is f**ked up and the local districts can't afford to pay for everything.  Every year the district has to find areas to cut costs in order to absorb increasing salaries and health costs.

Phil Murphy is not the answer either.  We need wholesale reform on how schools are funded and how the state participates. In my opinion, special education needs (including tuition for out-of-district placements) should be funded by the state.

campbell29 said:

The whole IEP situation in MSO is beyond messed up.  First, you have the fight every step of the way to get one, and if you are lucky enough to get that far, you have to fight for every service you are entitled to.  The claim in the lawsuit could have been made by any number of families, black and white.
.....

its not so much a racial issue, but an institutional issue, and it affects every kid in the district.  

Foxee, think you're missing the point of the lawsuit.