SOMA Black Parents Workshop Lawsuit
Reading the lawsuit .. one of their demands If the district doesn’t address all this issue they want “the merger of the district with a neighboring urban school district or the creation of a country school district to rationally balance school and end racial tracking”
I’m guessing Orange, Newark and Irvington .. do believe actually believe this is possible and will actually resolve the problem ??? 
Yes but who has that kind of money, have you looked at the cost $30,000 a year! If anyone has any suggestions for private schools that are not in that price range (I looked at Hudson School, $20,000), throw them out there!!!!!
This is a little simplistic. School systems are particularly litigation shy and for good reason. This stuff costs a lot of money, for one thing. For another, there are community politics and raw feeling involved. It's not like some outside bad guy is suing the town. A lawsuit like this represents a rift in the community. The outcome of this kind of lawsuit is also difficult to predict so I wouldn't read to much into a decision to settle.
max_weisenfeld said:
Patient? Bear in mind this is the second lawsuit. The district settled one four years ago with a consent decree. It is the failure to fulfill the conditions of the consent decree that has triggered this lawsuit. If you think this lawsuit is frivolous or self serving, just remember that the district did not settle the previous suit because they thought they were going to win it.
bub said:
This is a little simplistic. School systems are particularly litigation shy and for good reason. This stuff costs a lot of money, for one thing. For another, there are community politics and raw feeling involved. It's not like some outside bad guy is suing the town. A lawsuit like this represents a rift in the community. The outcome of this kind of lawsuit is also difficult to predict so I wouldn't read to much into a decision to settle.
max_weisenfeld said:
Patient? Bear in mind this is the second lawsuit. The district settled one four years ago with a consent decree. It is the failure to fulfill the conditions of the consent decree that has triggered this lawsuit. If you think this lawsuit is frivolous or self serving, just remember that the district did not settle the previous suit because they thought they were going to win it.
A personal aside: An exchange like this reminds me why I come to MOL for thoughtful comments. Max makes a good point; bub responds with another good point. Both give me something to ponder, all in two concise, snark-free paragraphs. Thanks.
max_weisenfeld said:
Patient? Bear in mind this is the second lawsuit. The district settled one four years ago with a consent decree. It is the failure to fulfill the conditions of the consent decree that has triggered this lawsuit. If you think this lawsuit is frivolous or self serving, just remember that the district did not settle the previous suit because they thought they were going to win it.
I do not at all think it's frivolous. Maybe my wording was imprecise. I think it's unfortunate that it's coming to this, but I understand why they are bringing the suit.
Their attorney should have googled "what does a federal complaint look like" before this was submitted.
Sorry, ml1, comment was not entirely directed at you, or even this thread, but I just cannot bringmyself to wade into that sh**storm on fb.
I put the failure of our district to follow through on the previous settlement squarely at the feet of the Board of Education, Memoli, and Ramos.
Ramos was an abject failure. He dismissed the consultant that was working on these issues without explanation and then the district dropped the ball. The BOE was asleep at the wheel, assuming all was well with Ramos. Memoli was just marking time until they could hire someone (Ramos).
I don't disagree that there are serious issues which need to be addressed. My original point was that asking for monetary damages undermines the credibility of the lawsuit.
max_weisenfeld said:
Patient? Bear in mind this is the second lawsuit. The district settled one four years ago with a consent decree. It is the failure to fulfill the conditions of the consent decree that has triggered this lawsuit. If you think this lawsuit is frivolous or self serving, just remember that the district did not settle the previous suit because they thought they were going to win it.
Steve said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but nothwithstanding plaintiffs' demand for SOMSD to offer an AP African-American History course, I don't think that the College Board offers an AP test in African-American History.
That’s correct.
yahooyahoo said:
How is suing for millions in damages going to solve the problem(s)? Seems counterproductive to me and it undermines the credibility of main arguments presented by the plaintiffs.
The millions aren’t for damages, which are unspecified. The $12 million is for programs and other initiatives:
- A $5 million fund for families to get outside academic support for African-American students
- A $2 million fund to recruit, hire and retain African-American teachers
- $2 million to help students with disabilities move up from Level 3 classes
- $2 million for academic enrichment programs for African-American and Latino students
- $1.5 million for a study of the postgraduate results of African-American students since 2000
max_weisenfeld said:
Sorry, ml1, comment was not entirely directed at you, or even this thread, but I just cannot bringmyself to wade into that sh**storm on fb.
I don't blame you. For all the hand-wringing about the supposed nastiness of anonymous posters on MOL, I find that FB is 10 times worse than anything here. I drop into some of those discussions now and then, but I end up here more often.
Do you think they want the "unspecified damages" to be less than a million dollars?
DaveSchmidt said:
Steve said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but nothwithstanding plaintiffs' demand for SOMSD to offer an AP African-American History course, I don't think that the College Board offers an AP test in African-American History.
That’s correct.
yahooyahoo said:
How is suing for millions in damages going to solve the problem(s)? Seems counterproductive to me and it undermines the credibility of main arguments presented by the plaintiffs.
The millions aren’t for damages, which are unspecified. The $12 million is for programs and other initiatives:
- A $5 million fund for families to get outside academic support for African-American students
- A $2 million fund to recruit, hire and retain African-American teachers
- $2 million to help students with disabilities to move up from Level 3 classes
- $2 million for academic enrichment programs for African-American and Latino students
- $1.5 million for a study of the postgraduate results of African-American students since 2000
yahooyahoo said:
Do you think they want the "unspecified damages" to be less than a million dollars?
What plaintiffs want in damages is irrelevant to me. They can, and often do, ask for anything; the Workshop could’ve demanded $100 million in damages if it wanted. What matters is what’s ultimately awarded.
ml1 said:
max_weisenfeld said:I don't blame you. For all the hand-wringing about the supposed nastiness of anonymous posters on MOL, I find that FB is 10 times worse than anything here. I drop into some of those discussions now and then, but I end up here more often.
Sorry, ml1, comment was not entirely directed at you, or even this thread, but I just cannot bringmyself to wade into that sh**storm on fb.
I agree with these two gentlemen.
I think we can agree on the goal (improve educational opportunities for, and the education received by, all students) but not with the method adopted or the specific demands.
For starters, I don't understand why the lawsuit concerns aren't pursued under the previous agreement. Another local group, Parents in Partnership for Respect & Equity in SOMA Schools, stated its support for the recent STEM changes while acknowledging more work is needed. "We recognize that school integration and de-leveling in particular is but one piece of a much larger approach to closing the achievement gap, and we further recognize that it is not an overnight solution. The district must also continue to build trust with parents who have been disappointed in the past by the district’s failure to operationalize plans, or to see other important projects through. But it takes just as much energy to embrace optimism as it does to maintain cynicism- In this moment, we choose to remain hopeful. We will also remain vigilant."
Subtleties like that, however, aren't always easy to discuss on the FB.
I think, based on the lack of action by the Board of Ed over many years, that it is prudent to file the lawsuit. The BOE has shown continual reluctance to pursue concrete action without being threatened. A lawsuit can always be withdrawn or settled, as it was last time, if progress is made.
South Orange Maplewood School District Sees Nearly $5 Million Deficit in Budget Plan, But Staff Cuts Not Expected
Out-of-district tuition payments will be 11% of the entire budget.
h4daniel said:
https://www.tapinto.net/towns/soma/sections/education/articles/south-orange-maplewood-school-district-sees-nearl
South Orange Maplewood School District Sees Nearly $5 Million Deficit in Budget Plan, But Staff Cuts Not Expected
You may want to start a new thread for the budget discussion. There are lots of issues in the budget. If your point was to point blame at this lawsuit, you should be aware that settlement agreements appear with relative frequency in the BOE minutes. This suit is just more public.
That article is terrible news. Not the deficit, which is bad enough, but how in part they are covering it. Deferring maintenance and taking 1 million from the maintenance fund. Didn't we have a big discussion about unusable bathrooms and crumbling schools a little while ago. Deferring this work makes it more expensive later. It is an unending slide. We have to bond for school reconstruction and repair, and we have to pay for it.
max_weisenfeld said:
I think, based on the lack of action by the Board of Ed over many years, that it is prudent to file the lawsuit. The BOE has shown continual reluctance to pursue concrete action without being threatened. A lawsuit can always be withdrawn or settled, as it was last time, if progress is made.
Though perhaps wrongheaded or poorly implemented, wasn't the Access and Equity plan a significant, concrete step that seemed to address the issue of improper tracking by giving families complete freedom to choose classes?
My 11th grader said Dr. Stornetta is leaving CHS.
I wonder how many other STEM teachers will leave.
tbd said:
My 11th grader said Dr. Stornetta is leaving CHS.
I wonder how many other STEM teachers will leave.
Yes, Dr. Stornetta is going to Morristown before the school year ends. Big loss.
ml1 said:
The figures on discipline by race of student are pretty starkly divergent. Those are two very big and obvious issues that need to be addressed, and hopefully the new administration has some solutions.
If possible, could you please expand on the discipline gap? I'd be interested in knowing whether the data demonstrates that African-American students who were determined to have engaged in a particular violative behavior (e.g. fighting, cheating, etc) were more likely to be referred for disciplinary action and/or to receive significantly harsher sanctions than white/other students who engaged in the very same behavior. Or, does the data being cited simply illustrate that, overall, more black students were suspended or placed on probation for disciplinary offenses than white, Asian or other students? OR, is it, perhaps, something else? I don't mean to suggest it's one or the other, just wondering what the actual data shows because I've not seen it. Thank you.
I've been thinking and trying to learn a lot about this issue being relatively new to the area. Some thoughts I had:
1. CHS has waaaay too many levels. If I'm understanding correctly, there are up to 6 levels for math? That's splitting hairs and I can understand why the Black Parents Workshop is upset when Levels 2 and 3 are made up predominantly of black students and the curriculum appears to be below grade level.
2. With that being said, I don't believe that having only an AP level and then one other academic level will be successful. Most districts around here have a level for students who need additional supports, a college prep level which lends itself to a class with wide variation in abilities and motivation and an honors or AP level. The reason why I don't believe having only an AP level and then an academic level will be successful is because class sizes being what they are, you really need two teachers per classroom to differentiate successfully. Otherwise, you're setting teachers up to fail. I have no idea given our budgetary issues if our district would be able to implement that. I need to learn more about the Access & Equity policy but my district where I teach relies on teacher recommendations. However, if a student or parent disagrees with my recommendation, they can waive into a class by signing a form and agreeing to remain in the class for a certain amount of time before being allowed to change levels. Generally it works well.
3. While I understand in lawsuits you throw in whatever you can to see what sticks, some of these items border on the ridiculous. IMHO, it does the Black Parents Workshop a disservice and is a distraction from the real problems at hand. For example, they're requesting an AP African American History course?? The College Board doesn't even offer such a program/curriculum.
“A $5 million fund for families to get outside academic support for African-American students”
I’m not understanding this, anyone want to clarify?
I can't speak for the current levels, but when I was at CHS there were 5 levels. Being described by my guidance counselor as a "bright, but unmotivated" student, during my 4 years at CHS I have taken math classes in level 2, 3, and 4. At that time 3 was "at grade level." I can say that, at that time at least, there were NOT too many levels. The pace at which the different levels moved was noticeable. The level 2 went slower than 3 not because the teachers didn't give a crap, but because the student's often had to have material repeated multiple times, in different formats, for them to fully grasp it. In level 4 the class went at a faster pace because students were able to pick up material quickly without even needing refreshers. Having a level 4 student wait around for a week while the level 2 student picks up a concept will just lead to frustration. Asking the level 2 students to move at the same pace as the level 4 students, even with tutoring, would lead to more students failing the class. Asking a teacher to teach different students different concepts within the same class is asking too much of the student. High school math isn't grade school math, levels are there for a reason.
I have no issue with a student being allowed into a level that their teachers did not recommend them for, so long as there is the understanding that it was the student's choice and that the school is not required to supply tutoring.
you'd be better served reaching out to the Black Parents Workshop for the data. I've seen the figures in the past, but it's not like I'm sitting here with a database.
Norman_Bates said:
ml1 said:
The figures on discipline by race of student are pretty starkly divergent. Those are two very big and obvious issues that need to be addressed, and hopefully the new administration has some solutions.
If possible, could you please expand on the discipline gap? I'd be interested in knowing whether the data demonstrates that African-American students who were determined to have engaged in a particular violative behavior (e.g. fighting, cheating, etc) were more likely to be referred for disciplinary action and/or to receive significantly harsher sanctions than white/other students who engaged in the very same behavior. Or, does the data being cited simply illustrate that, overall, more black students were suspended or placed on probation for disciplinary offenses than white, Asian or other students? OR, is it, perhaps, something else? I don't mean to suggest it's one or the other, just wondering what the actual data shows because I've not seen it. Thank you.
mem said:
“A $5 million fund for families to get outside academic support for African-American students”
I’m not understanding this, anyone want to clarify?
"Tutoring, counseling and compensatory education."
spontaneous said:
Having a level 4 student wait around for a week while the level 2 student picks up a concept will just lead to frustration. Asking the level 2 students to move at the same pace as the level 4 students, even with tutoring, would lead to more students failing the class.
The latest change in leveling will, in essence, group Levels 2 and 3 together. Level 2 and Level 4 students won’t have to match each other’s pace.
It’s not clear to me that the SOMA Black Parents Workshop wants only one level, either. There’s a lot of focus on deleveling in the lawsuit, but one of the plaintiffs is the parent of an honors student whose complaint is that there aren’t more African-American students in honors classes.
I pay a tutor to help my daughter improve her reading. AA students will get free tutoring? This doesn’t add up.
^^^ this is my feeling as well. I now understand after middle school parents start registrating their kids @ private school.