Accusation against SOMA School Board member
addiemoose said:
If you haven't been a person of color pulled over by a cop, you haven't walked far enough in the other person's moccasins to say how you would feel or react in that situation.
I don’t know. I got pulled over by a white cop for speeding, in the same transaction got a ticket for failure to change address, I had just moved. I took my ticket and went on my way. He was polite, so was I. The side of the road is neither the time or place to argue your case. Take it to court if you’re so inclined. There was just no justification for the escalation. As parents we have so few opportunities to teach our kids how to carry themselves in similar situations, and esp for POC. What did her kids learn?
addiemoose said:
If you haven't been a person of color pulled over by a cop, you haven't walked far enough in the other person's moccasins to say how you would feel or react in that situation.
I haven't "walked in her moccasins" as you say. But I strongly believe that no amount of stress, anxiety, embarrassment or fear justifies the use of racial slurs. Not by anyone, not aimed at anyone.
The rest I could write off as a stress response by someone who has more reason to fear police than I do. But racial slurs stand out to me, and I consider "skinhead" as used here to be one.
The next step is hers to take, and I wait to see what it will be. As I've said, I'm not yet sure she should resign, but she has huge repair work to do.
I've "liked" a couple of the comments here that I agree with, so nothing to add on this topic.
As an aside, I notice that the MOL discussion is a LOT more civil than the several in the "SOMA Lounge" on the Book of Face. I know MOL bashing is a favorite sport there.
nohero said:
I've "liked" a couple of the comments here that I agree with, so nothing to add on this topic.
As an aside, I notice that the MOL discussion is a LOT more civil than the several in the "SOMA Lounge" on the Book of Face. I know MOL bashing is a favorite sport there.
I agree on all fronts here - also “liked” many comments.
Lounge has unfortunately often becomes an uncivil venue when anything controversial arises. MOL seems to now be rising out of the muck.
IMHO, the use of public forums (and obviously the use of a car/carrying a driver’s license) is a privilege - and all people should work to respect the law and each other.
Clearly lots of us are on edge.
Both the right & left media are having a field day when any of us loose our $#|+. If you really want to get upset, read the FoxNews public comments on this video.
I saw a WPIX news truck parked outside of the BOE before 7am this morning...
I have to say that I don't know how she didn't see the police officer. It wasn't like he was hiding and she didn't even try to slow down. To me, that's privilege, when you think you can drive any way you want.
j_r said:
Here's what my dad, a Carson Drew type, said when I got a speeding ticket: When you exercise the privilege of driving a car, you assume the responsibility of obeying laws governing the speed limit and being in possession of proper documentation, even when nobody's looking. When you are pulled over for cause, you are in police custody.
That's not a power dance, it's the contract you sign to be able to drive and live in a community where schoolchildren are in reduced danger of being mowed down by motorists who are in a hurry. You might argue that nobody should be granted leniency, even with a PBA sticker or an officer of the court badge. I would agree. But acknowledging guilt, apologizing, and then trying to wiggle out of a ticket just strikes me as hypocritical.
I'm not suggesting that we don't have traffic control.
I'm suggesting that there might be creative ways to make the routine act of making traffic stops less stressful for BOTH the cop and for the person being pulled over.
Is it common for a cop to deal with someone going off the rails during a routine traffic stop? I assume it occurs several times a week, if not several times a day. And I would also bet that it stresses out the cop to deal with these instances. We don't want stressed out cops -- they become more likely to make bad decisions that end up as videos on national TV.
Will blaming the individuals in every 'situation-gone-bad' fix the issue? Or is a better approach prevention: Find ways for this common interaction to go more smoothly more often.
Think of it as a project manager looking for ways to improve operational outcomes. And start with "What is the desired outcome?"
I believe (and know in specific instances), ironically, that the most frequent beneficiaries of the "do you know who I am" power play are cops although, obviously, elected officials and judges have been caught doing this kind of thing. My own view is that its a form of obstruction of justice that when proven, should lead to automatic termination. That the law applies to everyone, and that it be seen to do so, is critical to civil society.
sprout said:
We can state absolutes based on this interaction. Or we can learn from it to help our community and police gain better understandings of each other.
This seemingly stress-induced emotional response is interwoven with assumptions of power and powerlessness. I think that recognizing this response pattern could help provide a key to understanding and improving interactions between police and community.
A thinking and objective post
I am a former pot-smoking hippie. I get nervous when I see a cop follow me, even when I know I haven't done anything wrong. But that's one of the reasons I try to keep my speed in check, don't make any illegal rights-on-red, always signal, etc. If you are afraid of the police--and POC certainly have reason to be trepidatious--then maybe you at least limit your exposure to the police by obeying traffic laws.
Perhaps if she stayed calm and rational she may have just got a warning? Speeding around children and school zones is deplorable, but it wasn't like she was going a million miles an hour. I also understand if she was afraid, but lashing out to a police officer is inappropriate, not to mention dangerous if the wrong cop pulled her over. I got pulled over by a crazy cop once, it was scary as hell, but I stayed calm out of pure fear.
in all the FB and MOL posts I haven't seen anyone express the reaction I'm having to this. I'm a little bothered by a police department using dashboard cam video to embarrass a member of the public who misbehaved. The cop wasn't in danger, he wasn't assaulted. He's rightly being recognized for staying calm and professional in the moment. But he got his revenge in the long run. He apparently told enough people about this encounter that someone filed an OPRA request, got the video and released it to the media. And now, imho there's a backlash against Ms. Lawson Muhammad that is way out of proportion to her offense. The video has literally gone international. She was wrong to call the chief of police a skinhead. She shouldn't have dropped the VP's name to try to get out of a ticket. But does she deserve to be notorious all over the US and in the UK for doing it?
ml1 said:
in all the FB and MOL posts I haven't seen anyone express the reaction I'm having to this. I'm a little bothered by a police department using dashboard cam video to embarrass a member of the public who misbehaved. The cop wasn't in danger, he wasn't assaulted. He's rightly being recognized for staying calm and professional in the moment. But he got his revenge in the long run. He apparently told enough people about this encounter that someone filed an OPRA request, got the video and released it to the media. And now, imho there's a backlash against Ms. Lawson Muhammad that is way out of proportion to her offense. The video has literally gone international. She was wrong to call the chief of police a skinhead. She shouldn't have dropped the VP's name to try to get out of a ticket. But does she deserve to be notorious all over the US and in the UK for doing it?
Is it a known fact that it was the officer who spread the word about this or is that just speculation?
ml1 said:
in all the FB and MOL posts I haven't seen anyone express the reaction I'm having to this. I'm a little bothered by a police department using dashboard cam video to embarrass a member of the public who misbehaved. The cop wasn't in danger, he wasn't assaulted. He's rightly being recognized for staying calm and professional in the moment. But he got his revenge in the long run. He apparently told enough people about this encounter that someone filed an OPRA request, got the video and released it to the media. And now, imho there's a backlash against Ms. Lawson Muhammad that is way out of proportion to her offense. The video has literally gone international. She was wrong to call the chief of police a skinhead. She shouldn't have dropped the VP's name to try to get out of a ticket. But does she deserve to be notorious all over the US and in the UK for doing it?
I can’t blame the officer for telling others about this stop,* and once a story gets around, anybody could have decided to send an anonymous email about it.
What I’m trying to understand — though some differences in the situations are clear — is what led Walter Fields, who condemned ulterior motives and righteous indignation over what he characterized as an isolated incident involving Marshall’s principal, to make this a cause worth an immediate ouster.
*ETA: Speculation.
ml1 said:
in all the FB and MOL posts I haven't seen anyone express the reaction I'm having to this. I'm a little bothered by a police department using dashboard cam video to embarrass a member of the public who misbehaved. The cop wasn't in danger, he wasn't assaulted. He's rightly being recognized for staying calm and professional in the moment. But he got his revenge in the long run. He apparently told enough people about this encounter that someone filed an OPRA request, got the video and released it to the media. And now, imho there's a backlash against Ms. Lawson Muhammad that is way out of proportion to her offense. The video has literally gone international. She was wrong to call the chief of police a skinhead. She shouldn't have dropped the VP's name to try to get out of a ticket. But does she deserve to be notorious all over the US and in the UK for doing it?
I'm not bothered. The facts seem clear. Had the video not been released the community would probably have not known the details. And I don't think the backlash is out of proportion. As a representative of the Board of Ed, this behavior isn't acceptable, to use language she did, to not accept her mistakes -- the kids (and parents) in the community should know its not acceptable to act like this.
ml1 said:
in all the FB and MOL posts I haven't seen anyone express the reaction I'm having to this. I'm a little bothered by a police department using dashboard cam video to embarrass a member of the public who misbehaved. The cop wasn't in danger, he wasn't assaulted. He's rightly being recognized for staying calm and professional in the moment. But he got his revenge in the long run. He apparently told enough people about this encounter that someone filed an OPRA request, got the video and released it to the media. And now, imho there's a backlash against Ms. Lawson Muhammad that is way out of proportion to her offense. The video has literally gone international. She was wrong to call the chief of police a skinhead. She shouldn't have dropped the VP's name to try to get out of a ticket. But does she deserve to be notorious all over the US and in the UK for doing it?
So cop videos should not be released when a civilian acts up?
And the cop should be blamed because he told someone? Any cop having a weird threatening name dropping encounter with a civilian would mention it up to his buds and maybe superiors.
When you have a political player dropping names you need to let the bosses know, to be forewarned, in case something comes down the pike.
Some excuse her because a traffic stop is stressful. Yet, she was not stressed enough to forget to mention herself as a Bd of Ed member and to drop Sheena's name.
People will see her actions. If that makes her notorious by some then so be it. The moral is to act decent in public.
Given her stated intent to obstruct justice, the cop is lucky to have the video. She fired the first shot when she threatened to call President of the BOT. If I was the officer, I would want as many people to know what really happened as possible.
This is, of course, not to imply that Collum would have acted inappropriately. Does anyone know if she has commented on this?
I don't think it's fair to assume that it was the cop that did the talking when Lawson-Muhammed ended their interaction with a threat to call Sheena Collum and Chief Kroll. She may have created the buzz that resulted in the OPRA request herself.
peteglider said:
ml1 said:I'm not bothered. The facts seem clear. Had the video not been released the community would probably have not known the details. And I don't think the backlash is out of proportion. As a representative of the Board of Ed, this behavior isn't acceptable, to use language she did, to not accept her mistakes -- the kids (and parents) in the community should know its not acceptable to act like this.
in all the FB and MOL posts I haven't seen anyone express the reaction I'm having to this. I'm a little bothered by a police department using dashboard cam video to embarrass a member of the public who misbehaved. The cop wasn't in danger, he wasn't assaulted. He's rightly being recognized for staying calm and professional in the moment. But he got his revenge in the long run. He apparently told enough people about this encounter that someone filed an OPRA request, got the video and released it to the media. And now, imho there's a backlash against Ms. Lawson Muhammad that is way out of proportion to her offense. The video has literally gone international. She was wrong to call the chief of police a skinhead. She shouldn't have dropped the VP's name to try to get out of a ticket. But does she deserve to be notorious all over the US and in the UK for doing it?
I think the backlash is out of proportion. For better or for worse, taking people down over bad behavior, especially in viral videos, has become a feeding frenzy / blood sport in the media.
But at the same time, I'm not bothered by it, as I believe the transparency provided by dash-cam and body-cam technology is the best thing that has happened in the police field in god knows how long. And those videos should be public for everyone to see.
Unfortunately there is some collateral damage in this new world. But net-net, the fact that the public sees this stuff is a huge benefit.
ml1 said:
in all the FB and MOL posts I haven't seen anyone express the reaction I'm having to this. I'm a little bothered by a police department using dashboard cam video to embarrass a member of the public who misbehaved. The cop wasn't in danger, he wasn't assaulted. He's rightly being recognized for staying calm and professional in the moment. But he got his revenge in the long run. He apparently told enough people about this encounter that someone filed an OPRA request, got the video and released it to the media. And now, imho there's a backlash against Ms. Lawson Muhammad that is way out of proportion to her offense. The video has literally gone international. She was wrong to call the chief of police a skinhead. She shouldn't have dropped the VP's name to try to get out of a ticket. But does she deserve to be notorious all over the US and in the UK for doing it?
I will disagree in that the last person I'd blame for anything is the officer. From his standpoint, he has to tell his superiors about the encounter (since he was told that the Village President and Chief of Police may be spoken to). Would the Chief and/or VP want to review the video at that point, to be ready if they were contacted? Probably yes. Would they mention that fact if they were contacted? Probably yes.
After that, we can't know who asked for the tape to be released to the public. The way it's become public has been inflammatory (did Mr. Strupp need to give it a "click bait" title like "Video Shows School Board Member In Altercation With Police", for example)
mdn said:
I don't think it's fair to assume that it was the cop that did the talking when Lawson-Muhammed ended their interaction with a threat to call Sheena Collum and Chief Kroll. She may have created the buzz that resulted in the OPRA request herself.
The OPRA request was the result of an anonymous email.
BG9 said:
Some excuse her because a traffic stop is stressful. Yet, she was not stressed enough to forget to mention herself as a Bd of Ed member and to drop Sheena's name.
“Excuse her” may be a little strong. In any case, I don’t think those reactions are necessarily inconsistent with stress.
She has met
With Chief Kroll and apologized
To him and to the community
One wonders what it was that she said to Sheena Collum and the Chief of Police when she called them. I am guessing it wasn't "A very polite officer pulled me over because I was speeding in front of a playground".
This woman was using her position to make threats. That is unacceptable, regardless of her emotional state.
Klinker said:
This is, of course, not to imply that Collum would have acted inappropriately. Does anyone know if she has commented on this?
The Village Green said yesterday that it had reached out to her for comment. It has not posted any response since then.
It now reports, however, that Lawson-Muhammad has issued an apology, which includes, “I allowed my emotions to overwhelm me that morning, and I fell short of the standards to which I hold myself.”
(Crossposted with librarylady.)
Klinker said:
I am guessing it wasn't "A very polite officer pulled me over because I was speeding in front of a playground".
In her apology, she praises the officer’s conduct: “And to my benefit, the officer did not react to my behavior. The officer kept an even tone in our interaction and performed his job well under the circumstances. I thank him for his patience.”
DaveSchmidt said:
Klinker said:In her apology, she praises the officer’s conduct.
I am guessing it wasn't "A very polite officer pulled me over because I was speeding in front of a playground".
Right. I was wondering what she said back in April when she made her calls to try to get out of the ticket. Probably something quite different.
Klinker said:
Right. I was wondering what she said back in April when she made her calls to try to get out of the ticket. Probably something quite different.
Has anyone confirmed that she made such calls?
It doesn't sound like she has any intention of resigning her position on the BOE.
It doesn't sound like she has any intention of resigning her position on the BOE.
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Absolutely true. How should or could this specific situation unfolded differently?