DUMP TRUMP (previously 2020 candidates)
Steve said:
Why? They didn't structure the Primary system.
Glad I read your comment before I started typing. At least California moved up to Super Tuesday. I thought this was a good time for voters to have pressed the Democratic Party to move New Jersey to an earlier date, as Cory Booker is running and might have some influence.
The argument against having all states on the same day is the cost of campaigning. California was late because of this but somehow they managed to change the dynamic.
Its something I have been complaining about for years. I hate the idea that a candidate that I might support drops out because of low numbers before my vote is even counted.
Steve said:
basil said:
Thank our moronic founding fathers
Why? They didn't structure the Primary system.
They didn't even create Political Parties. They were dealing with 13 States which were completely autonomous. They had to satisfy the smallest States and the largest, the "Slave States" and those which abhorred Slavery.
How are the UN or the EU structured?
nan said:
Ok, scenario--you are president and you want to get lots of great reforms implemented. You will run into a brick wall. That brick wall is the DC corruption and corporate stranglehold that multi-national corporations have on both political parties. So even if you mean well and you go in there with your "plans" you will not get much, if any of them done, even if you have a supermajority. Half the Democratic Party are corporate/centrist Dems. They are backed by moneyed interests. So, that is the deal if the president means well and is going to play the inside game.
If you only do the outside game, you have no institutional power. You can do all the rallies you want, and scream in the wilderness, but there will be no tangible result. The Women's March was an example of that.
So playing only the inside game or only the outside game is totally ineffectual. To win, you need an inside-outside game married together. For example, if Bernie Sanders is elected president, and he has meetings in the White House with his top advisors and they develop a strategy. Bernie knows he is running up against a brick wall. He will come up with a list of top priority programs (that poll over 60% in popularity) like M4A, GND, end private prisons, etc. He will present that list publically from the oval office on primetime TV. He will call on all Americans to march on Washington and do a general strike and ground this economy to a stand-still until we get the necessary changes. We will camp out in Washington and we are not going to move until this agenda is passed. Anyone who gets in our way will get primaried and will lose. It will take massive organization and planning, but it can be done.
He's drawing a line in the sand. There is only one candidate who will do this inside/outside strategy. It is modeled after MLK, Jr. and the Civil Rights protests. You mix in with that, leadership from the top and a clear ally in the Whitehouse and it can be unstoppable.
Here is the flaw. There is a Ruling Class and they would not allow it. Furthermore there is a Right-Wing "base" some of whom have violent tendencies. Sanders would suffer the same fate as Salvador Allende.
The Dems are preparing for a fight among themselves.
https://www.politico.com/news/2019/10/15/elizabeth-warren-bashes-2020-democrats-donors-046908
STANV said:
The Dems are preparing for a fight among themselves.
https://www.politico.com/news/2019/10/15/elizabeth-warren-bashes-2020-democrats-donors-046908
this is a fight they need to have. We should remember that part of Trump's appeal to voters back in 2015-16 was that as a "very rich guy" he didn't need to rely on high rolling donors.
It's a "centrist" myth that the only way to appeal to portions of Trump's base is to move to the right. This kind of move by Warren is taking direct aim at Trump's (faux) populism.
ml1 said:
STANV said:
The Dems are preparing for a fight among themselves.
https://www.politico.com/news/2019/10/15/elizabeth-warren-bashes-2020-democrats-donors-046908
this is a fight they need to have. We should remember that part of Trump's appeal to voters back in 2015-16 was that as a "very rich guy" he didn't need to rely on high rolling donors.
It's a "centrist" myth that the only way to appeal to portions of Trump's base is to move to the right. This kind of move by Warren is taking direct aim at Trump's (faux) populism.
Yeah - eschewing large donations should simply be a given for Democratic candidates these days. Very disappointed in Buttigieg's position on this.
Mayor Pete is attacking "Medicare for All". Apparently he sees it to his advantage to attack "top tier" candidates Warren and Sanders and position himself as a "moderate" alternative to Biden.
Latest polling.
https://www.msnbc.com/hardball/watch/elizabeth-warren-leads-in-new-national-poll-71259205863
Watch to the end to see the polling on "too old".
Oh heck yeah, look who’s making some noise. Another halting wet noodle showing from Biden tonight and we may soon have ourselves a legit moderate candidate.
Smedley said:
Oh heck yeah, look who’s making some noise. Another halting wet noodle showing from Biden tonight and we may soon have ourselves a legit moderate candidate.
Voted for him for mayor. Think he'd make a terrible president.
STANV said:
Steve said:
basil said:
Thank our moronic founding fathers
Why? They didn't structure the Primary system.
They didn't even create Political Parties. They were dealing with 13 States which were completely autonomous. They had to satisfy the smallest States and the largest, the "Slave States" and those which abhorred Slavery.
Who came up with this stupid Electoral College idea then?
Smedley said:
Oh heck yeah, look who’s making some noise. Another halting wet noodle showing from Biden tonight and we may soon have ourselves a legit moderate candidate.
Tim Ryan will be president before Michael Bloomberg.
basil said:
Who came up with this stupid Electoral College idea then?
The primaries have nothing to do with the EC, I think is the point.
drummerboy said:
basil said:
Who came up with this stupid Electoral College idea then?
The primaries have nothing to do with the EC, I think is the point.
See link on Rose Garden thread re establishment of Electoral College. Hamilton can take the bow.
If only Biden would get out of the moderate lane. He’s like a sputtering car blocking traffic behind him.
Smedley said:
If only Biden would get out of the moderate lane. He’s like a sputtering car blocking traffic behind him.
the people who think that Biden's support will go to some other "moderate" candidate are making the mistaken assumption that voters make their choices rationally based on the candidates' positions on issues. But if Biden were to drop out, currently his supporters most often named second choice is not Mayor Pete or Senator Amy. It's none other than Elizabeth Warren (by a wide margin):
Biden Supporters Used To Say Sanders Was Their Second Choice — Now They Say Warren
And interestingly, their second choice used to be Bernie. So much for people being logical in their choices.
Smedley said:
If only Biden would get out of the moderate lane. He’s like a sputtering car blocking traffic behind him.
But sometimes, when the lane in question leads off a cliff, the sputtering beater car with bald tires and a bad oil leak is a godsend
ml1 said:
the people who think that Biden's support will go to some other "moderate" candidate are making the mistaken assumption that voters make their choices rationally based on the candidates' positions on issues. But if Biden were to drop out, currently his supporters most often named second choice is not Mayor Pete or Senator Amy. It's none other than Elizabeth Warren (by a wide margin):
Biden Supporters Used To Say Sanders Was Their Second Choice — Now They Say Warren
And interestingly, their second choice used to be Bernie. So much for people being logical in their choices.
Voters are funny, but will those who support Biden because of his experience as long time Senator and VP shift to the Mayor of a small town? Pete is in 4th place in the Polls and has been rising. He's from the same region as Iowa,site of the first caucus. We will have to wait and see.
ml1 said:
the people who think that Biden's support will go to some other "moderate" candidate are making the mistaken assumption that voters make their choices rationally based on the candidates' positions on issues. But if Biden were to drop out, currently his supporters most often named second choice is not Mayor Pete or Senator Amy. It's none other than Elizabeth Warren (by a wide margin):
Biden Supporters Used To Say Sanders Was Their Second Choice — Now They Say Warren
And interestingly, their second choice used to be Bernie. So much for people being logical in their choices.
Perception of "electability" at play here? Maybe?
Steve said:
Perception of "electability" at play here? Maybe?
I would agree with this.
Bernie Sanders had a great night at the debate and then got the coveted AOC endorsement with Ilhan Omar and Rashida Talib bonus points. He's having a big rally in Long Island City this Saturday where they will announce the endorsements.
nan said:
Bernie Sanders had a great night at the debate and then got the coveted AOC endorsement with Ilhan Omar and Rashida Talib bonus points. He's having a big rally in Long Island City this Saturday where they will announce the endorsements.
Yes, with the AOC endorsement Bernie is positioned to really run up the score in NY, CA, MA etc, should he win the nomination. And it will cost him in the states that matter electorally, where AOC is toxic. What a coup.
Smedley said:
Yes, with the AOC endorsement Bernie is positioned to really run up the score in NY, CA, MA etc, should he win the nomination. And it will cost him in the states that matter electorally, where AOC is toxic. What a coup.
Perhaps, for shorthand, we can label those people the “toxic voters”. If only we were to nominate a Republican, then we would have a real chance of winning their votes.
Smedley said:
Yes, with the AOC endorsement Bernie is positioned to really run up the score in NY, CA, MA etc, should he win the nomination. And it will cost him in the states that matter electorally, where AOC is toxic. What a coup.
Yeah, it sucks. That's why almost every candidate was sucking up to her, especially Warren and Harris. They wanted that endorsement. As stated in this video, she is the symbol, more than anyone else, of the new rising grassroots working-class coalition that is taking over the Democratic party. She has a base; she's got energy. She's got a massive platform behind her.
I predict AOC's endorsement will have exactly zero effect on Sanders' polling numbers.
Siena College poll last week has it Biden 21%, Warren 21% and Sanders 16% in NYS. That's 340 registered voters who were polled. It might be interested to see what happens to those numbers the next time they run them.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-primaries/democratic/new-york/
nan said:
Bernie Sanders had a great night at the debate and then got the coveted AOC endorsement with Ilhan Omar and Rashida Talib bonus points. He's having a big rally in Long Island City this Saturday where they will announce the endorsements.
Is this bigger than a Joe Rogan endorsement?
sbenois said:
Is this bigger than a Joe Rogan endorsement?
Yes. Bernie going on Joe Rogan was a huge hit for him as well.
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Why? They didn't structure the Primary system.