DUMP TRUMP (previously 2020 candidates)
sbenois said:
Thank you for your comment.
You do know that Nan is not running for the Presidency?
nohero said:
Nan cares about polls again
Sbenois trolls again
Discussion causing eye rolls again
It’s Saturday on MOL.
A place where discussion can feel like Hell.
Didn’t mean to step on your post, nohero. I should’ve refreshed first.
Smedley said:
Of course. But if Corbyn had won, it would have been a good omen for the progressive movement.
considering that Johnson's position on health care is to the left of all the Democratic candidates except Sanders and Warren, I'm not sure what it says for Democrats in the U.S. One of his promises was to devote more spending to the NHS.
BG9 said:
What makes you think most of America does not view Sanders like the the Brits viewed Corbyn? Sanders may be up there in the Democratic primary polls but that only represents 15% of that group.
I do not know much about Corbyn but from what I do know Bernie Sanders is nothing like him.
My take away from reading the comments of former Labour supporters who voted Tory is that sometimes you have to vote for the lesser of evils.
galileo said:
As time goes by my prediction is Bernie is going to bow to Elizabeth Warren. She is not who I would choose for president but I think this will happen. Warren should change her dressing style. A little casual for a presidential candidate.
Should Andrew Yang wear a tie?
ml1 said:
considering that Johnson's position on health care is to the left of all the Democratic candidates except Sanders and Warren, I'm not sure what it says for Democrats in the U.S. One of his promises was to devote more spending to the NHS.
What does it say for Republicans since Boris and his folks had to move Left?
DaveSchmidt said:
Didn’t mean to step on your post, nohero. I should’ve refreshed first.
You took more time.
You had the better rhyme.
That's a large rally? The place is small. Its 1/10 to 1/20 the size of a Trump rally.
STANV said:
BG9 said:
What makes you think most of America does not view Sanders like the the Brits viewed Corbyn? Sanders may be up there in the Democratic primary polls but that only represents 15% of that group.
I do not know much about Corbyn but from what I do know Bernie Sanders is nothing like him.
My take away from reading the comments of former Labour supporters who voted Tory is that sometimes you have to vote for the lesser of evils.
You're likely correct in believing Sanders is nothing like Corbyn. But what matters is what most of America thinks.
BG9 said:
You're likely correct in believing Sanders is nothing like Corbyn. But what matters is what most of America thinks.
This will be used to smear Progressives and I also expect antisemitic and Russian accusations to be stepped up. It has nothing to do with reality, but yes it will be used by the mainstream media--and it has already started. Hopefully, the Sanders campaign can counter it well, and it is important that they take it seriously and pushback forcefully. One thing that will make a difference is that Corbyn was not polling well and many did not feel he was connecting with working-class voters. Sanders is polling well and his whole base is working class so he is in a different position from the get-go.
Also, interesting twitter thread by a not-famous, ordinary guy who did a lot of canvassing around London and had some interesting boots on the ground observations: https://twitter.com/lukepagarani/status/1205487970897342464
BG9 said:
You're likely correct in believing Sanders is nothing like Corbyn. But what matters is what most of America thinks.
Most of America has no idea who Corbyn is. I have little doubt that more Americans can name members of the Royal Family than can name British Politicians.
What concerns me is whether more Americans know who Meghan Markle is than know who Bernie Sanders is. Or care.
nan said:
BG9 said:
You're likely correct in believing Sanders is nothing like Corbyn. But what matters is what most of America thinks.
This will be used to smear Progressives and I also expect antisemitic and Russian accusations to be stepped up. It has nothing to do with reality, but yes it will be used by the mainstream media--and it has already started. Hopefully, the Sanders campaign can counter it well, and it is important that they take it seriously and pushback forcefully. One thing that will make a difference is that Corbyn was not polling well and many did not feel he was connecting with working-class voters. Sanders is polling well and his whole base is working class so he is in a different position from the get-go.
Also, interesting twitter thread by a not-famous, ordinary guy who did a lot of canvassing around London and had some interesting boots on the ground observations: https://twitter.com/lukepagarani/status/1205487970897342464
She's back to believing in polls.
Bizarro.
STANV said:
BG9 said:
You're likely correct in believing Sanders is nothing like Corbyn. But what matters is what most of America thinks.
Most of America has no idea who Corbyn is. I have little doubt that more Americans can name members of the Royal Family than can name British Politicians.
What concerns me is whether more Americans know who Meghan Markle is than know who Bernie Sanders is. Or care.
It doesn't matter that most of America has no idea of Corbyn. What matters is Republicans have seen what did Corbyn in and will manufacture to make Sanders look like Corbyn.
But that may not work considering Corbyn's many self-defeating faults.
Nan claims Sanders support is from with the working class. Then why his low support from AA's in the South? Are they not working class? I don't see working class Latinos jumping up and down in joy for him. Or is Sanders support primarily from the entitled Bernie Bros, college students and "progressives" like Nan? When I visit a college, do I see support from those who are working class there, the cleaners, maintenance workers, kitchen staff? I don't see them at Sander meetings.
BG9 said:
It doesn't matter that most of America has no idea of Corbyn. What matters is Republicans have seen what did Corbyn in and will manufacture to make Sanders look like Corbyn.
But that may not work considering Corbyn's many self-defeating faults.
Nan claims Sanders support is from with the working class. Then why his low support from AA's in the South? Are they not working class? I don't see working class Latinos jumping up and down in joy for him. Or is Sanders support primarily from the entitled Bernie Bros, college students and "progressives" like Nan? When I visit a college, do I see support from those who are working class there, the cleaners, maintenance workers, kitchen staff? I don't see them at Sander meetings.
actually polls over the past two election cycles show that Sanders' support among young black voters is nearly equal to his support among young white voters.
BG9 said:
When I visit a college, do I see support from those who are working class there, the cleaners, maintenance workers, kitchen staff? I don't see them at Sander meetings.
When you visit a college, which candidate(s) do you see the cleaners, maintenance workers and kitchen staff showing up at meetings to support instead?
DaveSchmidt said:
When you visit a college, which candidate(s) do you see the cleaners, maintenance workers and kitchen staff showing up at meetings to support instead?
Does any pollster poll them? Do any journalists interview them?
The following clip is troublesome to me. I don't have a problem with criticism of "Establishment Democrats", but when they get more boos from a Bernie crowd than Trump and R's, that's kind of a problem in terms of winning the General, and certainly in helping to win the Senate and keeping the House. Bernie laughs at the response, but it's not funny, and it's something he needs to control.
(I can't get the tweet to embed. It's a 30-second video of a bernie speech.)
https://twitter.com/AnnieGrayerCNN/status/1205890982727880706?s=20
STANV said:
Does any pollster poll them? Do any journalists interview them?
To conduct a poll, you’d need to design a way to come up with a randomized sample of campus workers from across the country. When I weigh that difficulty against the value of the findings, I doubt anyone polls them.
As for journalists who interview them, your Google search is likely to be as effective as any that I could attempt.
DaveSchmidt said:
BG9 said:
When I visit a college, do I see support from those who are working class there, the cleaners, maintenance workers, kitchen staff? I don't see them at Sander meetings.
When you visit a college, which candidate(s) do you see the cleaners, maintenance workers and kitchen staff showing up at meetings to support instead?
To be fair, unless they're wearing their special hats, it's hard to tell who is a cleaner, maintenance worker or kitchen staff.
BG9 said:
It doesn't matter that most of America has no idea of Corbyn. What matters is Republicans have seen what did Corbyn in and will manufacture to make Sanders look like Corbyn.
But that may not work considering Corbyn's many self-defeating faults.
Nan claims Sanders support is from with the working class. Then why his low support from AA's in the South? Are they not working class? I don't see working class Latinos jumping up and down in joy for him. Or is Sanders support primarily from the entitled Bernie Bros, college students and "progressives" like Nan? When I visit a college, do I see support from those who are working class there, the cleaners, maintenance workers, kitchen staff? I don't see them at Sander meetings.
No, it's the Democrats who are manufacturing Corbyn's defeat and trying to pin it on Sanders, and in some cases, Warren. If he survives the primary, the Republicans will be a piece of cake.
Corbyn's faults are not Bernie's faults. Corbyn was shown to be losing in the polls (don't love them but they are one consideration), sometimes badly, to Johnson right up to the election. Bernie has been shown in many, many polls to clearly beat Trump, usually more so than other candidates.
Corbyn caved to establishment centrists such as Jo Swinson, who also lost. His loss was not a call to centrism--although the media will play it that way because they are looking to smear, not inform. Sanders has not wavered on his support for Medicare for All, which is our version of Brexit. He is the only candidate left standing who supports it front and center. The others have all caved to the center.
Sanders is the leading candidate with Latinos and his support from AAs is only second to Biden. His donations come from Walmart workers and teachers (the biggest occupation). The Bernie Bros is a myth created by Third Way/David Brock.
He does have the youth vote, also.
STANV said:
Does any pollster poll them? Do any journalists interview them?
Some people think Sanders's support is underestimated because his base does not get polled as much as other candidates. Also, he is counting on turning out people who don't usually vote. We will see what happens. This was a long, but interesting discussion about Sanders's support and prospects for winning.
"M4A...is our version of Brexit."
Immortal words.
Silly perhaps, but immortal.
ridski said:
How did Corbyn cave to Swinson?
From what I've read, Corbyn was strongly for leave and moderates such as Swinson were for remain. Swinson hates Corbyn and evidently was going to support Johnson and his Brexit with the condition of a second referendum. Anyway, this put pressure on Corbyn to soften his leave position and both Swinson and Corbyn lost.
drummerboy said:
"M4A...is our version of Brexit."
Immortal words.
Silly perhaps, but immortal.
If it is then the lesson to be learned is to support it fully and not wimp out with the Public Option.
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