2015 D.O.E water heater standards will increase replacement costs dramatically
HWH was replaced in 2008.
The hot water was the only thing that kept me sane during the power outage after Sandy.
bog said:
Anyone else notice all the HE washers simply suck? While its nice the save environment, no one wins if you save 30% in energy per load but need to run twice the loads
Same with the low -gallon toilets.
In regards to toilets, the early low flush ones did suck, but the newer ones worked out the bugs. Ours was installed in 2009 and we don't have to double flush. Power flush is key.
plungy said:
tourn said:
Oh my god, we will have to use more efficient water heaters! The horror! First off, the 2015 date only applies to manufacturing. All lesser efficient models will still be on the shelf while available. It will probably be several years more before stocks run out. On demand water heaters are a great choice, very reliable and reasonably priced. Not hard or expensive to install. They already meet the new regs. The newer heat pump electric tank type heaters are also a good choice and they don't need any flue. I would further recommend that instead of spending thousands stocking up on old water heater products, install a solar water heater which I believe has both rebates and tax credits! Otherwise, if you really need to stress needlessly about government regulation, just watch Fox News instead.
That's Right, just install a heat pump water heater. 1300.00 to 2000.00 for the 50 gal. unit plus installation which includes putting in an outdoor condenser. Kind of like the cost for installing a mini-split AC system but more because of the plumbing connections involved. Or just throw some panels on your roof and install a solar water heater!
BTW Obama (who I support) took sharp criticism from environmental lobbies for not making these options compulsory.
Don't laugh about the hoarding thing. The existing reserves of standard water heaters are going to disappear rapidly and the price for those will increase dramatically also like it has for Freon etc.
On demand water heaters...mixed reviews. We had a sales rep from Bradford White come to one of our plumbing association meetings. After he gave us his required schpeel admitted that they were not so great this far north due to incoming water temps and that if there are large demand requirements it is sometimes necessary to install two of them in series.
As far as I know, there is nothing to put outside for a heat pump water heater which just requires the normal electrical and plumbing connections. You were misinformed about the on demand heaters too. They work very well in very cold climates. There are many sizes and makes to choose from. At the turn of the century, solar water heaters were very common all over the country and especially in the south. Cheap electricity made them disappear.
We've replaced both of our toilets with new, low-usage toilets in the last year or so and they are working just fine for us.Jasmo said:
bog said:
Anyone else notice all the HE washers simply suck? While its nice the save environment, no one wins if you save 30% in energy per load but need to run twice the loads
Same with the low -gallon toilets.
Tourn, you are right. I just looked it up and the new heat pump water heaters do not have an outdoor condenser like the earlier non-integrated versions did. My bad, I have not had occasion to install one of these so far. I did read however that they have the effect of air conditioning your basement in the winter time and can lower the temp on cold days to 47 degrees! At that point your boiler is supplying the warm air needed to make your hot water.
Look, I am a plumbing and heating contractor and truth be told these new regulations will serve to make me money.
What I have a problem with is the assertion that any of these things, including on demand heaters are going to save the consumer anything after installation and maintainance costs are figured in.
These laws may benefit the evironment but they have to potential to cause real economic hardship on many folks.
I envision myself in 5 years having to tell some 80 year old widow or a struggling young couple with babies that they have to come up with 3 to 5 grand for something as basic as hot water and I am not so happy. Also, I'm not so happy that I'm starting to sound like my Republican brother.
plungy said:
New energy standards on commercial and residential water heaters could increase installation prices 3 to 4 times. If your heater is old or otherwise challenged you may want to consider replacing it before these regs. go into effect.
www.plumbingperspective.com/start-preparing-now-for-2015-energy-efficiency-rules-on-water-heaters/
Here you convinced me and some who consequently bought new water heaters that costs would improve dramatically.
Its hurry, hurry, buy now before its too late.
Yet, now I see the NEW 2015 heaters are not more expensive. If anything, those who hurried to buy before the new energy efficient heaters came out may have done themselves a disservice.
So where's that 3 to 4x times more cost?
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Rheem-Performance-40-gal-Tall-6-Year-36-000-BTU-Natural-Gas-Water-Heater-XG40T06EC36U1/205811145?N=5yc1vZc1tz
$409
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Rheem-Performance-Plus-40-gal-Tall-9-Year-40-000-BTU-High-Efficiency-Natural-Gas-Water-Heater-XG40T09HE40U0/204698000?N=5yc1vZc1tz
$439
The driving factor is not the cost of the units themselves, but their size and increased complexity of installation.
max_weisenfeld said:
The driving factor is not the cost of the units themselves, but their size and increased complexity of installation.
I'm sure that is significant to the total cost. New heater installations would cost from 900 to 1400 to install depending on plumber and heater capacity.
But the OP post made it seem we're going to have to pay 3 to 4x times.
This came to my notice because my neighbor put in a 50 gal 2015 energy efficient mandated water heater. Removal of old heater, new heater, installation and permit fees came to about $1000.
I don't see the 3 to 4x price increase. Neither have I seen complaints on the internet about the new heater installation costs.
My water heater died and had to be replaced recently and my plumber told me about this, so I'm glad for the timing.
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bog