What will it take to convince my dad he shouldn't shovel snow?

Again, mostly venting.  I know there really isn't anything beyond what I've done that can make him stop.  That doesn't stop me from worrying though, does it?  And, no, I am not a basket case of worried frenzy- just wish it didn't keep snowing! LOL


Perhaps offering him an alternative would help.  "Dad I know you really want to clear the snow yourself.  FYI, I spoke with ____ and s/he will do/finish the snow clearing for you should you change your mind.  Just give her/him a call at ___."


They wou

ld never make the call and the alternative was provided, paid for and sent away (twice!)


There is only so much you can force. My parents finally agreed to a home care worker for the minimum hours offered but couldn't figure out anything she could do but cook. They gave her a recipe they wanted, she shopped and cooked...and my mom refused to eat it. Eventually they just let her go because it was pointless without their cooperation.


This sound like an incredibly frustrating experience for you and your family.  Only thing I can offer is to have a sit down with him and have him sign a health care proxy and a living will.  Let him know that you can't stop him from doing what he wants but you and your mom want to be "prepared" if something horrible (god-forbid) happens to him.  There is a document called 5 wishes which spells out very clearly all the end of life decisions that will need to be made.  You can't change what he is going to do, but you can certainly let him know that you will be prepared.  


Conandrob240, your situation sounds very similar to the ones hubby and I had with our parents. They were all stubborn and set in their ways and wouldn't listen to reason.  We did the best we could to help them and guide them but ultimately the choices they made were theirs.  I understand your concerns and frustrations.  I also understand how responsible you feel.  However, the choices your dad makes are his, and you will have to learn to accept them as hard as that may be.  I feel your pain.


NizhoniGrrrl said:

There is only so much you can force. My parents finally agreed to a home care worker for the minimum hours offered but couldn't figure out anything she could do but cook. They gave her a recipe they wanted, she shopped and cooked...and my mom refused to eat it. Eventually they just let her go because it was pointless without their cooperation.

We went through exactly this situation with my mother. So frustrating. It is so difficult for elders to give up their autonomy. I think for them it is an admission that they are truly past it and on their way to the end.


I just don't get it though. Why would you want to hang onto such a terrible task? LOL Driving, sure. Shoveling snow? Someone else can have it now as far as I'm concerned!


I truly enjoy shoveling snow and hope to continue doing it for a long time.  Not everyone considers it a "terrible task."  (The only part that is a huge irritant is cutting through the stuff that the township plows across the the end of the driveway.)

conandrob240 said:

I just don't get it though. Why would you want to hang onto such a terrible task? LOL Driving, sure. Shoveling snow? Someone else can have it now as far as I'm concerned!

my guess is that you are the minority. "Enjoy" shoveling snow? Nah. Tolerate, okay. Even people who like snow don't want to shovel it.


I suspect a lot of people take snow shoveling as a feat of strength, a major physical accomplishment. For your father, maybe it's a measure of youth and physical prowess that he can't give up on.

I was out shoveling this morning. Send your shoveling help up here. I won't send them away. Promise.  grin 


Or maybe he just needs to get it the hell off his driveway so he can go to work, get his grandkids where they need to go.  I don't think he's trying to prove anything- just wants to snow gone and his work ethic concludes that he needs to be the guy to do it.


Well, obviously they need the snow to go away. The question is why does it have to be him who does the work?


Because he's there when it falls and he needs to get out.  And, in his mind, there is no reason why he can't just do it himself- it's his job.  I don't think there's a big "I'm so macho, look at me do this" or "Look how young I am" thing going on.  It's the practical work ethic.


Then why send away shovelers who were there and ready to do the work? I was just speculating, not accusing your father of a deep seated neurosis that forces him into what you described as self-destructive behavior.


In the same way women see dirt and mess and start tidying, or see a clock and edible items and start preparing a meal, some men glance out a window and start mentally listing 6 'do now' chores that are their prerogative and no-one else's. If they're retired (or semi), it's more important that they do it, because they don't want to lose the skill or relevance to the daily rhythm of the home. But, being men, they won't say that. cheese


but it's an instinct! Happens in a flash! They don't even realise it's happening, and for most, you can't stop them unless you tie them to a chair!  smile 

There's a concept called Dignity of Risk. It's  what Joan is referring to when she says it's important to let elders do what they feel they can do, based on their own self-knowledge and life experience. If they get into a scrape, well they're old enough to handle the consequences. (Which is why I'm saying check into the financial ramifications, because that might be a bigger impact than he sees)

It's the elders' right to have dignity of risk. It's our right to be anxious about their apparent carelessness of risk. They'd say it's payback for our youth! Really, it's just loving families. 

Here, we have Men's Sheds. Not sure if you have them. Every man has to have a Shed (or a Cave) in which to tinker...these Sheds are Older Men's clubs, meeting once a week to work with tools on joint projects (toys for charity, or fixing bikes, or small appliances for local low income folk etc), and talks re men's health and stuff, ageing, mental health, who does your chores, etc. Easier transitioning.


joanne said:

In the same way women see dirt and mess and start tidying, or see a clock and edible items and start preparing a meal, some men glance out a window and start mentally listing 6 'do now' chores that are their prerogative and no-one else's. If they're retired (or semi), it's more important that they do it, because they don't want to lose the skill or relevance to the daily rhythm of the home. But, being men, they won't say that. <img src=" src="/res/static/common/plugins/redactor/emoticons/1.0/images/3.gif" unselectable="on">



conandrob240 said:

Oy. 

Why "Oy"?


It is hard for many men of that generation to admit they can't do something. That's like admitting that you are old. Or mortal. It's subconscious. Logic isn't part of the equation. My Dad took a long time to admit he needed hearing aids, for example. That was my mom's problem, not his. Old people need hearing aides.


it's hard for many men of any age to admit it. 

D tells me it's because then 'you're "beholden" to that person, even if you've paid them. There's a debt to be repaid or claimed one day. It always comes back and bites you'. 


It's hard to admit to yourself that something you have been able to do so well for so long may no longer be within your capability, even harder when a loved one points out this new-found fallibility.  

Perhaps try, "Dad, I know you are perfectly capable of shoveling the snow yourself; but, the kid down the street has been saving up for ___ .  I'd like to help him out and he won't accept the money without working for it. Perhaps we should let him earn some money towards his goal by letting him shovel for you just this once."

If Dad gets the message that this isn't about him (at least not entirely), perhaps he will be willing going forward to accept the help while helping someone else.


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