The Rose Garden and White House happenings: Listening to voters’ concerns
much of the anger or the stupidity which engulfs America have real root causes:
https://nypost.com/2017/01/22/why-schools-have-stopped-teaching-american-history/
DaveSchmidt said:
proeasdf said:No. That’s a Think opinion video.
YES!!!!
No. This article was published on NBC News Now which describes itself as: NBC News NOW is an online streaming network from NBC News where users can find the latest stories and breaking news on world news and US news.
“Can find.”
The New York Times describes itself as “all the news that’s fit to print.”
It also publishes editorials and Op-Eds.
mtierney said:
much of the anger or the stupidity which engulfs America have real root causes:
Is our Holocaust lesson over already?
mtierney said:
much of the anger or the stupidity which engulfs America have real root causes:
https://nypost.com/2017/01/22/why-schools-have-stopped-teaching-american-history/
Are those causes slavery, the cost of teaching degrees and the fact that most of the US syllabus is dictated by right wing Christians in Texas?
DaveSchmidt said:
Is our Holocaust lesson over already?
Holocaust lessons are not over when Republican officials attack a Jewish-American Congressman with an antisemitic trope and dog whistle.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/17/us/politics/donald-trump-republicans.html
But the unrestrained use of nicknames also has provoked public outcry. After the committee issued a statement in early June mocking the stature of Mr. Rose, a moderate Democrat from New York, who stands at 5 feet 6 inches, even some Republicans came to his defense.
“Instead of working on bipartisan issues, Little Max Rose is content passing socialist bills” for “giggles,” Michael McAdams, a spokesman for the committee, wrote in an official release that used an epithet before giggles. “Playtime is over, Max.”
Members already displeased with what they felt were needlessly aggressive personal attacks felt the committee had crossed a line by taunting a veteran: Mr. Rose served in the Army for almost five years and was wounded in Afghanistan, earning a Purple Heart. Representative Mike Gallagher, Republican of Wisconsin, called it a “stupid tactic and a counterproductive tag.”
deflecting a question by referencing the high cost of teaching degrees and or Christian values (anti American history folks, really?) is a none answer. How slavery was included in your view is a question only you can answer. As a former teacher yourself, can you explain the rationale?
In that link, I read that American History was to only be taught from 1877. Why would educators think that eliminating the founding of our nation, the Revolutionary War, and the Civil War which freed the slaves, should be irrelevant in American education?
We reap what we sow.
Edited to add: maybe the students questioned in sidewalk interviews about American history,as well as current events, and sounding often out of their depth, are not stupid at all. Just uneducated.
mtierney said:
In that link, I read that American History was to only be taught from 1877. Why would educators think that eliminating the founding of our nation, the Revolutionary War, and the Civil War which freed the slaves, should be irrelevant in American education?
They didn't think that. I'm not going to defend their post-Reconstruction starting point, but the proposal applied only to the year of U.S. history required in high school, and the reason given was to allow more time to cover the last 50 years or so. (ETA: An entire half-century that you and I didn't have to study when we were in high school.)
There was no proposal to eliminate pre-1877 U.S. history from the eight previous years of primary education, or from other high school courses.
mtierney said:
In that link, I read that American History was to only be taught from 1877.
You may find this shocking, but the NY Post opinion piece in your link was not an accurate description of the proposed curriculum change.
Did you really believe that the state of North Carolina going to eliminate all history pre-1877 from public school curricula?
mtierney said:
deflecting a question by referencing the high cost of teaching degrees and or Christian values (anti American history folks, really?) is a none answer. How slavery was included in your view is a question only you can answer. As a former teacher yourself, can you explain the rationale?
In that link, I read that American History was to only be taught from 1877. Why would educators think that eliminating the founding of our nation, the Revolutionary War, and the Civil War which freed the slaves, should be irrelevant in American education?
We reap what we sow.
Edited to add: maybe the students questioned in sidewalk interviews about American history,as well as current events, and sounding often out of their depth, are not stupid at all. Just uneducated.
Deflecting a question? You wrote a line and and posted a link. There was no question mark.
I'm all out of NY Times freebies for the year, so I had to go with your statement.
"much of the anger or the stupidity which engulfs America have real root causes"
So I'm left with commenting on where I believe the anger and stupidity which engulfs America is rooted. The question I ask you is whether the the anger comes from slavery, and the stupidity comes from a combination of the expenses of obtaining teaching degrees (coupled with the crap pay they receive for the job, which I failed to mention) putting good people off becoming teachers, alongside the corruption of the general national curriculum via the Texas Board of Ed, which continues to emphasize Judeo-Christian themes, such as "alternatives" to evolution, or replacing Thomas Hobbes with Moses when teaching "individuals whose principles of laws and government institutions informed the American founding."
Here's some more from back in 2015.
https://www.houstonpress.com/news/5-reasons-the-new-texas-social-studies-textbooks-are-nuts-7573825
And while yes, the influence of Texan text books across the nation has been in steady decline over the last decade, that doesn't affect those who are over, say, 15 and have been taught some pretty weird stuff about American history, society and the rest of the world.
I have to admit, Ridski, that this statement from your link, is mind-blowing. So, American students are being taught trash because publishers want an easy way out? How are teachers reacting to what the kids are being fed? Now, why isn’t there more outrage among teachers, parents, politicians, etc.? Let’s put this question to the candidates!
1. These textbooks will end up being used by school children across the country. That's the thing, in spite of the glaring oversights that appear in these new textbooks, it probably wouldn't be such a big deal to the rest of the country if they weren't going to end up with the exact same textbooks themselves. Texas is the second largest textbook market in the country — after California — so publishers tend to cater to Texas State Board of Education requirements when writing the textbooks. That was less of an issue before the Textbook Wars got started, but publishers have duly gone along with the State Board of Education and written textbooks with an eye toward meeting the state requirements. Hence why, just as everyone is talking about the Confederate flag and issues of race in the wake of South Carolina, Texas gets to be the state that is going one step further and teaching the wholewar to free the slaves as the war of Northern aggression. President Abraham Lincoln is lucky he's in the books at all.”
ridski said:
Deflecting a question? You wrote a line and and posted a link. There was no question mark.
I'm all out of NY Times freebies for the year, so I had to go with your statement.
"much of the anger or the stupidity which engulfs America have real root causes"
So I'm left with commenting on where I believe the anger and stupidity which engulfs America is rooted. The question I ask you is whether the the anger comes from slavery, and the stupidity comes from a combination of the expenses of obtaining teaching degrees (coupled with the crap pay they receive for the job, which I failed to mention) putting good people off becoming teachers, alongside the corruption of the general national curriculum via the Texas Board of Ed, which continues to emphasize Judeo-Christian themes, such as "alternatives" to evolution, or replacing Thomas Hobbes with Moses when teaching "individuals whose principles of laws and government institutions informed the American founding."
Here's some more from back in 2015.
https://www.houstonpress.com/news/5-reasons-the-new-texas-social-studies-textbooks-are-nuts-7573825
And while yes, the influence of Texan text books across the nation has been in steady decline over the last decade, that doesn't affect those who are over, say, 15 and have been taught some pretty weird stuff about American history, society and the rest of the world.
It's the nypost, not the ny times. BIG difference.
basil said:
It's the nypost, not the ny times. BIG difference.
Good point. I flicked back up the page and mixed up StanV's link with mtierney's. Maybe I'll take a read of it later, so I know WTF my in-laws are ranting on about this weekend when I see them.
It’s a two-year-old column that mtierney dug up, so hopefully they’ve moved on by now.
DaveSchmidt said:
It’s a two-year-old column that mtierney dug up, so hopefully they’ve moved on by now.
it's one of those assertions that should have a person's BS detector going off like crazy. How can someone be gullible enough to believe that the state of NC would actually stop teaching pre-1877 U.S. history?
Someone who believes that millions of Christians were incinerated in Nazi concentration camps?
It’s a world-wide issue...and the efforts to help those fleeing violence in their home countries need world-wide planning and cooperation. It is a non-partisan, international reality.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/18/world/immigration-trump.html
Edited to add: Just what does the United Nations do? Anybody know?
mtierney said:
It’s a world-wide issue...and the efforts to help those fleeing violence in their home countries need world-wide planning and cooperation. It is a non-partisan, international reality.
What else is new?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_Jews_from_Spain
https://www.historycentral.com/TheColonies/Jewarrive.html
Some descendants of refugees remember from whence they came.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emma_Lazarus
Emma Lazarus was born in New York City, July 22, 1849, into a large Sephardic Jewish family. She was the fourth of seven children of Moses Lazarus, a wealthy Jewish merchant, and sugar refiner;and Esther Nathan. One of her great-grandfathers on the Lazarus side was from Germany; the rest of her Lazarus and Nathan ancestors were originally from Portugal and resident in New York long before the American Revolution, being among the original twenty-three Portuguese Jews who arrived in New Amsterdam fleeing the Inquisition from their settlement of Recife, Brazil. Lazarus's great-great-grandmother on her mother's side, Grace Seixas Nathan (born in New York in 1752) was also a poet. Lazarus was related through her mother to Benjamin N. Cardozo, Associate Justice of the Supreme Court of the United States. Her siblings included sisters, Josephine Lazarus, Sarah, Mary, Emma, Agnes and Annie; and there was also a brother, Frank.
ml1 said:
Why are conservatives more susceptible to believing lies?
Ehrenreich starts with a loaded question — “Why is it that conservatives have taken the lead in falling off the deep edge?” — and then explores what “I think” is the answer. OK. Interesting enough, but not a scientific study.
lord_pabulum said:
liberals and conservatives are both susceptible to fake news but for different reasons
Scientific studies! Except did you read the original paper, LP? As the title of the Scientific American article says, the paper is mostly about the ways that liberals and conservatives judge (or misjudge) a story’s legitimacy, not whether one side is more susceptible than the other. It includes these observations, however:
“In spite of the significant motivated reasoning findings within both partisan groups, this difference does appear to be larger among conservatives.”
“We found some evidence of a unique gullibility towards believing actual fake news among conservatives in Study 1.”
(One caveat about that study, which the paper acknowledges, is that the pro- and anti-Obama sample stories and the pro- and anti-Trump sample stories might not be equally believable to a hypothetical objective observer.)
I didn't mean to portray my link as a scientific study because it clearly isn't. Even though I usually like to rely on something more data based, this question is kind of difficult to study in a controlled way. Partially because it's not as though left and right politics are mirror images. I know liberals who've been taken in by fake quotes attributed to Trump. But the fake quotes aren't any weirder that the stuff he actually says all the time.
Otoh, there are lots of people on the right who believe Rep. Omar married her brother. Someone on this thread believed that NC tried to outlaw teaching pre-1877 U.S. history. And of course the tens of millions who still believe Obama was born in Kenya. The fake stories aren't just fooling a few people on the right. Over time a lot of the fake stuff actually becomes narratives.
ml1 said:
I didn't mean to portray my link as a scientific study because it clearly isn't. Even though I usually like to rely on something more data based, this question is kind of difficult to study in a controlled way. Partially because it's not as though left and right politics are mirror images. I know liberals who've been taken in by fake quotes attributed to Trump. But the fake quotes aren't any weirder that the stuff he actually says all the time.
Otoh, there are lots of people on the right who believe Rep. Omar married her brother. Someone on this thread believed that NC tried to outlaw teaching pre-1877 U.S. history. And of course the tens of millions who still believe Obama was born in Kenya. The fake stories aren't just fooling a few people on the right. Over time a lot of the fake stuff actually becomes narratives.
I read the part about Ilhan Omar and couldn’t believe that people were that gullible.
Then I read this - -
The claim that Omar married her own brother as a way for him to gain a green card has been embraced by a number of conservative pundits with ties to the president, including commentator Dinesh D’Souza, talk-radio host Rush Limbaugh, and One America host Jack Posobiec. On Thursday, Fox News’ Tucker Carlson discussed it on his show.
Omar, who didn’t respond to requests for comment, has denied that her ex-husband is her brother. And for good reason. What many of the smear’s promoters never reveal to their audience is both the evidence Omar has provided to disprove their conspiracies and the fact that the completely unproven idea that she married her brother is based entirely on a single, anonymous, unsourced allegation initially made on an obscure internet forum.
ml1 said:
I didn't mean to portray my link as a scientific study because it clearly isn't. Even though I usually like to rely on something more data based, this question is kind of difficult to study in a controlled way. Partially because it's not as though left and right politics are mirror images. I know liberals who've been taken in by fake quotes attributed to Trump. But the fake quotes aren't any weirder that the stuff he actually says all the time.
Otoh, there are lots of people on the right who believe Rep. Omar married her brother. Someone on this thread believed that NC tried to outlaw teaching pre-1877 U.S. history. And of course the tens of millions who still believe Obama was born in Kenya. The fake stories aren't just fooling a few people on the right. Over time a lot of the fake stuff actually becomes narratives.
My understanding is the following:
1. Rumor about Ms. Omar marrying her brother started in Somali social media. See https://www.tampabay.com/nation-world/politifact-did-ilhan-omar-marry-her-brother-the-minneapolis-star-tribune-investigated-and-heres-what-they-found-20190719/
2. Minneapolis Star Tribune newspaper investigated Ms. Omar regarding her tax filings and the marry-her-brother story.
3. Minneapolis Star Tribune concluded that Ms. Omar did indeed file joint tax returns with a man she later married (while she was married to another man).
4. Ms. Omar has not responded to the rumor/allegation of the marry-her-brother story.
Conclusion: one issue regarding taxes was investigated and proven. And, second story (AKA marry-her-brother story) is inconclusive at this time (surpisingly, Ms. Omar will not respond on this issue).
proeasdf said:
...
Conclusion: one issue regarding taxes was investigated and proven. And, second story (AKA marry-her-brother story) is inconclusive at this time (surpisingly, Ms. Omar will not respond on this issue).
it's only surprising to idiots.
proeasdf said:
My understanding is the following:
1. Rumor about Ms. Omar marrying her brother started in Somali social media. See https://www.tampabay.com/nation-world/politifact-did-ilhan-omar-marry-her-brother-the-minneapolis-star-tribune-investigated-and-heres-what-they-found-20190719/
2. Minneapolis Star newspaper investigated Ms. Omar regarding her tax filings and the marry-her-brother story.
3. Minneapolis Star concluded that Ms. Omar did indeed file joint tax returns with a man she later married (while she was married to another man).
4. Ms. Omar has not responded to the rumor/allegation of the marry-her-brother story.
Conclusion: one issue regarding taxes was investigated and proven. And, second story (AKA marry-her-brother story) is inconclusive at this time (surpisingly, Ms. Omar will not respond on this issue).
are you serious?
ml1 said:
proeasdf said:are you serious?
My understanding is the following:
1. Rumor about Ms. Omar marrying her brother started in Somali social media. See https://www.tampabay.com/nation-world/politifact-did-ilhan-omar-marry-her-brother-the-minneapolis-star-tribune-investigated-and-heres-what-they-found-20190719/
2. Minneapolis Star newspaper investigated Ms. Omar regarding her tax filings and the marry-her-brother story.
3. Minneapolis Star concluded that Ms. Omar did indeed file joint tax returns with a man she later married (while she was married to another man).
4. Ms. Omar has not responded to the rumor/allegation of the marry-her-brother story.
Conclusion: one issue regarding taxes was investigated and proven. And, second story (AKA marry-her-brother story) is inconclusive at this time (surpisingly, Ms. Omar will not respond on this issue).
What word would you use to describe an allegation that is not denied by the primary person subject to such allegation?
Same word used by Minneapolis Star Tribune. See link above.
PS My best guess is that the rumor got started based on a marriage to a cousin (apparently very common among Somalis and Pakistanis). See https://www.everyculture.com/Africa-Middle-East/Somalis-Marriage-and-Family.html and https://ieet.org/index.php/IEET2/more/pellissier20120526
proeasdf said:
What word would you use to describe an allegation that is not denied by the primary person subject to such allegation?
Same word used by Minneapolis Star Tribune. See link above.
to my knowledge Ted Cruz has never denied being the Zodiac killer.
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No. That’s a Think opinion video.