Westminster Hotel in Livingston (Route 10) is managed by Trump Organization

The motives may be different but I'm not sure the outcome is any different than in the many instances where people pan a business or recommend one over another for non-political reasons.

   



Starsong said:

sorry if that comes off as condescending- but really, just stop and take a breath, further your causes but release the need to hurt others, perhaps find an equilibrium inside - keep your own curbs clean, hope the others will do so, but don't live on if they do or don't. 

Actions sometimes rise in proportion to the stakes. Clean curbs are not the stakes.


I haven't been refusing to stay at Trump properties because I want "families to fail."  I just don't want to support a guy who is a racist and misogynist (which he was long before he went into politics).  I'm spending money at someone else's hotel, supporting other people's "families."  I can only stay at one hotel at a time, so it's not like I can support all "families" of people who work at hotel properties.  So if I go to Chicago, I'll be at the Wit, or the Monaco, and not the Trump.  Yea for the "families" who work at the Wit!

Starsong said:

The desire to want people and their families to fail, or an eye for an eye, or the feeling you are left full of wanting revenge, wanting to destroy someone and or a business associated with him/her- please think about that for a moment.  please, before you respond here. take a look inside yourself. you are harboring some things perhaps that are weighing you down. sure, do your political lobbies what have you- but to wish ill will on someone you don't even know, employees, or even someone you do know, just ain't right friends.  sorry if that comes off as condescending- but really, just stop and take a breath, further your causes but release the need to hurt others, perhaps find an equilibrium inside - keep your own curbs clean, hope the others will do so, but don't live on if they do or don't. take care of yourselves, be kind. please. it's not good for you nor for the universe.  You can laugh at this, or remember it next time you wish bad on others. How about instead, wishing good on others. 



That is not the argument at all.  I am not suggesting one change their habits to support a business with which they have a disagreement.  I am instead suggesting one not actively tilt at windmills when the only likely outcome is to hurt those on the lowest rung of the organizational chart.

spontaneous said:



DannyArcher said:

Rather than rushing to smear a random hotel maybe take a minute to think about the people who work there and their families.  I bet they're counting on their paychecks.  There are better outlets for your energies.

By this logic I should now go out an spend money at Hobby Lobby since I don't agree with their refusal to cover certain types of affordable and reliable birth control.  In other words, I should now spend money at Hobby Lobby in order to help make sure that the employees earn enough to be able to cover the costs out of their own pocket



Remember, we're talking about Trump.  He's killing a tunnel project that's desperately needed by our towns, and everyone else in our region.  He's doing it for the petty reason that Senator Schumer is in favor of it.  Lecture about that.

Starsong said:

The desire to want people and their families to fail, or an eye for an eye, or the feeling you are left full of wanting revenge, wanting to destroy someone and or a business associated with him/her- please think about that for a moment.  please, before you respond here. take a look inside yourself. you are harboring some things perhaps that are weighing you down. sure, do your political lobbies what have you- but to wish ill will on someone you don't even know, employees, or even someone you do know, just ain't right friends.  sorry if that comes off as condescending- but really, just stop and take a breath, further your causes but release the need to hurt others, perhaps find an equilibrium inside - keep your own curbs clean, hope the others will do so, but don't live on if they do or don't. take care of yourselves, be kind. please. it's not good for you nor for the universe.  You can laugh at this, or remember it next time you wish bad on others. How about instead, wishing good on others. 



As pointed out above, one can only stay in one hotel at a time.  So by staying elsewhere I am helping  others who have jobs and families.  If other hotels do better, they will hire more - and a good chance those that get hired are the same ones who are being laid off at a hotel that people are reluctant to stay due to the ownership.   

I will not stay at a Trump property and made the decision a long time ago.  I have two friends that have worked with him and I can only say every negative thing you hear about Trump is true.  

Now that I know the Westminster is managed by the Trump org, I will not tell my friends to stay there. 


I think we should pause here and think about the poor families of all the Republican lawmakers we are going to vote out of office this Fall.

What an absurd line off conversation.  Boycott is one of the oldest and most American forms of political action. If we can't choose where we spend our money what real freedom do we have?



mikescott said:

As pointed out above, one can only stay in one hotel at a time.  So by staying elsewhere I am helping  others who have jobs and families.  If other hotels do better, they will hire more - and a good chance those that get hired are the same ones who are being laid off at a hotel that people are reluctant to stay due to the ownership.   

I will not stay at a Trump property and made the decision a long time ago.  I have two friends that have worked with him and I can only say every negative thing you hear about Trump is true.  

Now that I know the Westminster is managed by the Trump org, I will not tell my friends to stay there. 

As I said before, the Westminster will continue on long after the Trump organization is bankrupt (again) and its principles are rotting in jail. Given what we know of the way Trump treats employees and contractors the hotel's employees will be far better off under new management.


Yawn.  Enjoy your rage.


p.s. your avatar looks way too much like a swastika.


The purpose of a boycott of Westminster would not be to put them out of business. It would be to force them to disassociate from Trump.

So I'm not sure what all of this "hurting families" stuff is coming from.


eta: ditto on the swastika resemblance.


@Starsong, I'm with you, to an extent. I don't want employees to suffer.

But I do wish ill on Trump. The time and the circumstances call for it. Please see Psalm 109, any translation.


where do you see rage?

In my case, I've known Donald Trump is a dick since the '80s.  I'm not enraged by him.  But I'm also not going to give money to a dick.  

My question is -- if you think a guy is a dick, and you have other easy options for where you can spend your money, do you give it to the dick, or do you go next door and spend it with someone else?  All other things being equal, why would you NOT avoid giving money to the dick (who is also a con man, well known for not paying his suppliers)?

DannyArcher said:

Yawn.  Enjoy your rage.




p.s. your avatar looks way too much like a swastika.



His avatar is a tilted "45" with the circle-and-line over it.  The resemblance is intentional, I assume.

DannyArcher said:

Yawn.  Enjoy your rage.




p.s. your avatar looks way too much like a swastika.



drummerboy said:

The purpose of a boycott of Westminster would not be to put them out of business. It would be to force them to disassociate from Trump.

So I'm not sure what all of this "hurting families" stuff is coming from.




eta: ditto on the swastika resemblance.




wendy said:

 I only write this to reminiscence and to wonder if the Strip House closed rather than be associated with Trump.  cheese 

Maybe they figured that with a name like Strip House if folks knew it was associated with Trump they might get the wrong idea.  cheese 


Rage itself doesn't make a person right or wrong, but what you do with it defines you...

-s.

South_Mountaineer said:

His avatar is a tilted "45" with the circle-and-line over it.  The resemblance is intentional, I assume.

DannyArcher said:

Yawn.  Enjoy your rage.




p.s. your avatar looks way too much like a swastika.






drummerboy said:

The purpose of a boycott of Westminster would not be to put them out of business. It would be to force them to disassociate from Trump.

So I'm not sure what all of this "hurting families" stuff is coming from.




eta: ditto on the swastika resemblance.



@soda, that's a clever graphic. Did you do that?



drummerboy said:

The purpose of a boycott of Westminster would not be to put them out of business. It would be to force them to disassociate from Trump.

So I'm not sure what all of this "hurting families" stuff is coming from.




eta: ditto on the swastika resemblance.

I thought that was the point. It is anti Nazi and when I looked closer it is made up of 45 suggesting he is a white supremacy kind of guy. Or did I read way too much into it?



Tom_Reingold said:

@soda, that's a clever graphic. Did you do that?

Uhhhh, no...

-s.



soda said:



Tom_Reingold said:

@soda, that's a clever graphic. Did you do that?

Uhhhh, no...

-s.

But no one is better than Soda at saving graphics and posting them at just the right moment. I've always admired that skill.


color me duh. I didn't realize what it was until these last few posts.


Morganna said:



drummerboy said:

The purpose of a boycott of Westminster would not be to put them out of business. It would be to force them to disassociate from Trump.

So I'm not sure what all of this "hurting families" stuff is coming from.




eta: ditto on the swastika resemblance.

I thought that was the point. It is anti Nazi and when I looked closer it is made up of 45 suggesting he is a white supremacy kind of guy. Or did I read way too much into it?




DannyArcher said:

p.s. your avatar looks way too much like a swastika.

Its a variation on the famous Dead Kennedys t-shirt.  The 45 is today's version of a swastika and the band across it tells folks who support this monster what they can do with themselves.


I use to wear that shirt around SF back in the day.  It was a good way to meet interesting people and make friends.  I got my  first dental crown wearing that shirt.



cramer said:

The Kushner organization owns the Westminister hotel and the Trump organization manages it. 

The NYT article cited above by DaveSchmidt  highlights  a boutique hotel that the Kushner organization is building in Long Branch which will be managed by the Trump organization. The Kushner organization purchased Pier Village several years ago for $220 million. The lawyer representing Kushner is a good friend. 
Morganna said:

  I'm not sure what the arrangement is with Trump and Kushner but if it is something that could be changed, it would be worth contacting the partner or manager and explaining that you can not support that business and that you intend to tell others.


I do not believe the Kushner family is a threat to prosperity and peace. So I wouldn't recommend boycotting their businesses, or other businesses that are owned by people I do not agree with for that matter.

Trump however, is a different story. I think he is a threat to our prosperity, peace, and our country, and he needs to be stopped. I do not believe that boycotting the Westminster by itself is going to stop him. But I do believe we should use any (legal) means we have at our disposal to get him out of the White House. It will be good for the US, for the world, and frankly, also for the people that work there.


I would not currently stay in a Trump property anywhere in the world, and I would not recommend a Trump-managed property to visiting friends or relatives.  I believe it is important that Trump and his family hear us vote with our reservations.  Similarly, I would not shop at Hobby Lobby.  

When we travel, or when visiting friends need a hotel recommendation, I'm comfortable that any choice we make will help to support hotel workers and their families.  Unless you show me that Trump properties have labor and employment policies that are substantially better than those of their competitors (as is true for Costco vs. Walmart, for example), I will not be changing that position.  

And it will not be long before I start planning a bnai mitzvah, so I will be looking for a hotel to use for out of town guests.  Six years ago, we chose the Westminster for about a dozen rooms and a brunch.  This time it will not be on the list, although it is otherwise one of the better choices.



susan1014 said:

When we travel, or when visiting friends need a hotel recommendation, I'm comfortable that any choice we make will help to support hotel workers and their families.  Unless you show me that Trump properties have labor and employment policies that are substantially better than those of their competitors (as is true for Costco vs. Walmart, for example), I will not be changing that position.  

This!


gerritn said:
I do not believe the Kushner family is a threat to prosperity and peace. So I wouldn't recommend boycotting their businesses, or other businesses that are owned by people I do not agree with for that matter.

Whether the Kushner company is not a threat to prosperity and peace may be debatable.  The Kushner family appears to be a morally corrupt bunch who helped elect Trump and are totally in bed with Trump and his policies.  The following are just some of the antics of the Kushner company.

As for the moral character:  

Several years ago, Charles Kushner's brother (Murray) sued Charles because he felt Charles had engaged in inappropriate business practices, including tax fraud and an illegal campaign contribution scheme.  When criminal allegations arose in regard to Charles' practices, Charles hired a prostitute to lure William Schulder, his sister Esther's husband, into a sexual encounter in a hotel and arranged to secretly photograph and videotape the encounter.  Charles sent the pictures and tape to Esther and William in an attempt to blackmail them into not helping U.S. Attorney Chris Christie and his prosecutors.  Ultimately, Charles spent 14 months in federal prison for tax fraud (he claimed hundreds of thousands of dollars in phony deductions for office expenses) and for fraudulent campaign practices...making "hundreds of thousands of dollars in campaign contributions in the names of employees and associates who didn't know their names were being used."  Another Kushner brother-in-law, his wife's brother Richard Stadtmauer, was convicted and sentenced to three years in prison for his involvement in the schemes.  http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/19/nyregion/major-donor-admits-hiring-prostitute-to-smear-witness.html

Charles is now back at the helm of the Kushner company and has appointed two of his former inmate friends (who were also serving time for financial crimes) to high positions in the company.   https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-01-27/jared-kushner-s-felon-father-brought-two-fellow-inmates-into-company   So much for the character of the firm's executives.

As for supporting Trump:   

Charles Kushner hosted one of the first fundraisers (at his NJ Shore mansion) for Trump after he launched his campaign for the Republican presidential nomination. https://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/08/23/donald-trump-pays-a-visit-to-his-not-so-poor-relations/     Kushner also donated $100,000 to Make America Great Again PAC, a Super PAC supporting Trump.  A source told Politico that the donation was “entirely unsolicited and meant as a sign of support for the Trump candidacy.”

The Kushner company has touted the political connections to Trump, dangling a potential White House job to a representative of Apollo Global Management to obtain an exceptionally large loan to finance a Chicago construction project.    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/28/business/jared-kushner-apollo-citigroup-loans.html]   And it seems the Kushners also used the Trump connection to get other funding from Citigroup.

The Kushner company is being investigated for questionable financial practices:  https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/jared-kushners-father-on-probe-into-family-company-we-are-not-at-all-concerned/2018/01/21/d8d39f9a-fabc-11e7-a46b-a3614530bd87_story.html?utm_term=.e74303b8fd4f

The Kushner company used it's Trump connection to attempt to engage with Chinese investors: http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-kushner-company-chinese-investors-20180124-story.html

And, there are more examples...



Norman_Bates is jumping into a hotel discussion, and I was just about to take a shower. This could be a very bad day.


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