The Tearing Apart of the Democratic Party

And so it begins...

Progressive Group Announces Digital Ad Campaign Against Pete Buttigieg, Joe Biden

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/justice-democrats-digital-ad-campaign-pete-buttigieg-joe-biden_n_5e1d6c6ec5b650c621e447c9

Now you have the progressives going after each other (Sanders vs. Warren) instead of Trump.

Not surprise if the clown in the White House wins another term. SMH!


Right now, they’re all going after the same prize. Some commenters have promoted a preference for an all-positive primary campaign, but that never struck me as a realistic way to wage a political dogfight.


DaveSchmidt said:

Right now, they’re all going after the same prize. Some commenters have promoted a preference for an all-positive primary campaign, but that never struck me as a realistic way to wage a political dogfight.

 We need to expose candidates wounds and vulnerabilities before the Maggot in the White House starts gnawing on them. We don't want another Eagleton where we only find out about a vulnerability when it is too late to do anything about it (I understand that Eagleton was a VP candidate but his case illustrates the importance of vetting).


Yeah, some internecine warfare is good, as long as everyone comes together in the end for the real fight.

Of course, that latter part is not a given.


At this time in 2016 the Republican primary contenders were tearing each other apart. As were the Democrats in '08. 


Yeah, unless someone lands a real knockout punch, most of this stuff is forgotten by the general. It shouldn't affect Democratic turnout, and "independents" usually don't pay enough attention for it to matter.


In 2008, there were two clear potential candidates (Obama & Clinton). They went after each other but at the end, Clinton fully supported Obama. This go-round its the Progressives vs. the Moderates. How will this play out in middle America? The south, or vulnerable states like Wisconsin, Ohio or Florida?

What if THEIR candidate does not get the democratic nomination? The last go-round in 2016, non-voters decided the last election.

I like a good fight however, the Progressives vs. the Moderates seem to be two different battling parties.


phenixrising said:

I like a good fight however, the Progressives vs. the Moderates seem to be two different battling parties.
 

I'd say the "moderates" (which is a nice way of saying conservatives) need to take one for the team.  They drove the party for 30 years and here we are with a monumental divide between the top 2% and everyone else, rising seas and a President who splits his time between treason, rape and golf.  They say insanity is repeating the same action over and over again while expecting a different outcome.  Its time for a sane approach to politics within the party.


I hate candidates fighting or displaying cruelty. I want to see debating. A bit of passive aggression. A helping of sarcasm introduced with the traditional, "The gentlemen from Vermont ..... " ,and then the argument is delivered.

I think Adam Schiff has it down. He can deliver a line with absolute coldness and never appear rattled. I actually thought he would run.

For an appeal to our better angels, I'll miss Cory Booker's presence.


Klinker said:

phenixrising said:

I like a good fight however, the Progressives vs. the Moderates seem to be two different battling parties.
 

I'd say the "moderates" (which is a nice way of saying conservatives) need to take one for the team.  They drove the party for 30 years and here we are with a monumental divide between the top 2% and everyone else, rising seas and a President who splits his time between treason, rape and golf.  They say insanity is repeating the same action over and over again while expecting a different outcome.  Its time for a sane approach to politics within the party.

 I would argue that "moderate" does NOT equate with any kind of conservatism. It is, IMHO, a more pragmatic approach to "liberal" policies, bridging the gap between conservatism and progressive thought. It is FAR more to the left than you are willing to admit.


Dennis_Seelbach said:

 I would argue that "moderate" does NOT equate with any kind of conservatism. 

 Of course you would.  That's because you are a conservative.  In fact, you are so conservative that you see other conservatives as "FAR more to the left than you are willing to admit."

That's all fine and well but the simple fact is that your conservatism has failed in a fundamental way and that history of failure is what has led us to this God awful moment in history.  We tried it your way and failed, over and over again.  Its time to give the other team a chance.


Hey look it's happening here too!


mrincredible said:

Hey look it's happening here too!

 You can't create consensus without honest discussion.


Klinker said:

mrincredible said:

Hey look it's happening here too!

 You can't create consensus without honest discussion.

 Honest discussion does NOT include name calling. I am anything BUT a conservative, and am disgusted by that attitude. That you find it so easy to say that about me, when you have ZERO idea of where my thoughts lie, says a great deal more about you, than me. I have called you disgusting for the vitriol you heap on Biden, and I'll stand by that all day. But don't you dare try to heap that crap on me.


Dennis_Seelbach said:

 Honest discussion does NOT include name calling. I am anything BUT a conservative, and am disgusted by that attitude. That you find it so easy to say that about me, when you have ZERO idea of where my thoughts lie, says a great deal more about you, than me. I have called you disgusting for the vitriol you heap on Biden, and I'll stand by that all day. But don't you dare try to heap that crap on me.

 Honest discussion requires honesty.  On many issues, Democratic "moderates" are actually to the right of 1970s era conservatives.  The Democratic Party is a spectrum with a left, center and right.  You and your beloved Uncle Joe are sitting precisely in the center of that conservative right wing.


Klinker said:

Dennis_Seelbach said:

 I would argue that "moderate" does NOT equate with any kind of conservatism. 

 Of course you would.  That's because you are a conservative.  In fact, you are so conservative that you see other conservatives as "FAR more to the left than you are willing to admit."

That's all fine and well but the simple fact is that your conservatism has failed in a fundamental way and that history of failure is what has led us to this God awful moment in history.  We tried it your way and failed, over and over again.  Its time to give the other team a chance.

 And how "the other team" be given this chance?  I guess it should start by Biden, Buttigieg and Klobuchar bowing out before 9 pm tonight and leaving the debate to Bernie and Liz?  


Dennis_Seelbach said:

 Honest discussion does NOT include name calling....I have called you disgusting 

Chuckle.....

Love you Dennis.  Don't ever change.


Smedley said:

 And how "the other team" be given this chance?  I guess it should start by Biden, Buttigieg and Klobuchar bowing out before 9 pm tonight and leaving the debate to Bernie and Liz?  

 Sacrificing their personal ambitions for the good of their country?  It would be nice but I won't hold my breath.


Klinker said:

Smedley said:

 And how "the other team" be given this chance?  I guess it should start by Biden, Buttigieg and Klobuchar bowing out before 9 pm tonight and leaving the debate to Bernie and Liz?  

 Sacrificing their personal ambitions for the good of their country?  It would be nice but I won't hold my breath.

Yes, even the moderate candidates must know deep down inside that a good ol' spoonful of Bernie or Liz is just the medicine this country needs. Joe, Pete, Amy et al are all frauds, only out for themselves, they don't even believe in their own platforms.


Klinker said:

The Democratic Party is a spectrum with a left, center and right.  

 LOL


Smedley said:

 Joe, Pete, Amy et al are all frauds, only out for themselves, they don't even believe in their own platforms.

Speak for yourself.  I think Amy and Pete are sincere in their beliefs even if I don't share those beliefs.  Joe Biden has plagiarized his life from the get go so who know what he really thinks, if he thinks at all.


"If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen"

President Harry S. Truman.

The "attacks" if one can even call them that, among the Democratic contenders does not even approach what went on between trump and the other republicans in 2016. Trump attacked Cruz's wife for her looks. Rubio implied that trump was sexually inadequate.

And this is nothing compared to what trump will say about the eventual Democratic nominee.

If Bloomberg is the nominee, which I hope he is not, by November 40% of the country will be convinced that he is a Socialist. And "socialist" will be the mildest thing they will call him.


Klinker said:

Speak for yourself.  I think Amy and Pete are sincere in their beliefs even if I don't share those beliefs.  Joe Biden has plagiarized his life from the get go so who know what he really thinks, if he thinks at all.

 When it comes to Biden you do not know what you are talking about. 

OTOH I have no idea what Pete really believes.  


Klinker said:

Dennis_Seelbach said:

 Honest discussion does NOT include name calling. I am anything BUT a conservative, and am disgusted by that attitude. That you find it so easy to say that about me, when you have ZERO idea of where my thoughts lie, says a great deal more about you, than me. I have called you disgusting for the vitriol you heap on Biden, and I'll stand by that all day. But don't you dare try to heap that crap on me.

 Honest discussion requires honesty.  On many issues, Democratic "moderates" are actually to the right of 1970s era conservatives.  The Democratic Party is a spectrum with a left, center and right.  You and your beloved Uncle Joe are sitting precisely in the center of that conservative right wing.

 Honesty requires honesty...absolutely right. So be honest...what policy views of mine are "conservative", versus "pragmatically liberal"? Be specific, even though you have no clue who I am. And, just for extra credit, can you show me where I can be shown sitting "precisely in the center of that conservative right wing", along with Dear Uncle Joe?


ridski said:

Klinker said:

The Democratic Party is a spectrum with a left, center and right.  

 LOL

 It's normal for an American Political Party to have diverse points of view. Today's Republican Party is a cult of personality (with a very few exceptions) and not normal.


STANV said:

 When it comes to Biden you do not know what you are talking about. 

Biden's repeated plagiarisms, across the entirety of his life, are well documented. 


Dennis_Seelbach said:

 Honesty requires honesty...absolutely right. So be honest...what policy views of mine are "conservative", versus "pragmatically liberal"? Be specific, even though you have no clue who I am. And, just for extra credit, can you show me where I can be shown sitting "precisely in the center of that conservative right wing", along with Dear Uncle Joe?

 You are right Dennis. I have mainly judged you by your unbelievably passionate defense of the indefensible Great Uncle Grabby.  I might have you all wrong, and if I do, if you are in fact a staffer for AOC and a dedicated supporter of Medicare for All and the Green New Deal, I apologize.

That said, we aren't really here to discuss you, we are here to discuss whether partisan back biting and name calling are "Tearing Apart the Democratic Party".  While I was terribly hurt by your repeated attempts to label me  "disgusting", my position is that these sorts of things are just part of the vetting process that give Primaries their utility.


Klinker said:

Biden's repeated plagiarisms, across the entirety of his life, are well documented. 

 Nope. 

He was accused in College and cleared.

Some Campaign staffers in 1988 stole lines from a speech by the leader of the British Labour Party. That's about it.

I am beginning to think you have had personal interaction with Biden. Why else are you so vitriolic about him? 


STANV said:

 It's normal for an American Political Party to have diverse points of view. Today's Republican Party is a cult of personality (with a very few exceptions) and not normal.

 The joke is that there is a "left" in any American party, especially the Democratic Party. Taxing capital to fund social benefits is pretty moderate when compared to true leftist ideals like the abolition of profit and public ownership of the means of production. 


STANV said:

Klinker said:

Biden's repeated plagiarisms, across the entirety of his life, are well documented. 

 

He was accused in College and cleared.


NYT: Biden Admits Plagiarism in School But Says It Was Not 'Malevolent'

He also admitted to repeatedly misrepresenting his academic achievements. 


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