Pope Francis, Catholics, and Christians in the news & Bible verses

Red_Barchetta said:


mtierney said:
Some do all the talk; others step up..


https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/pro-life-women-deliver-semi-truck-full-of-supplies-72000-to-the-border-79366
 Why can’t you post a link with a comment like ‘here’s some people doing a nice thing’ or something like that? Why does everything have to be a dig at someone else?  Posts like this are concrete examples of YOU doing all the talk while others step up.

 Not to mention that there have been plenty of organizations doing exactly the same thing for the detention centers but being turned away by USCBP officers.

https://www.rollcall.com/news/sen-ted-cruz-urges-homeland-security-accept-soap-diaper-donations-border-facilities

https://www.texastribune.org/2019/06/24/texas-border-facility-donations-turned-away/

https://www.keranews.org/post/texas-lawmaker-files-bill-allow-donations-migrant-kids-border-patrol-stations

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/senate-candidate-arrested-trying-to-deliver-supplies-to-detained-kids_n_5b2d321be4b00295f15c3dd1


how do you post multiple links?


mtierney said:
how do you post multiple links?

 Copy link, paste link, hit enter, repeat.


proeasdf said:
 Thanks for responding with your solutions (a step in the right direction).  A couple comments to your suggestions:


#1.  Agreed,  treat [all of] the people with respect and compassion.


#2.  Agreed, [i]nvest in solving the root problem (middle America) . . . by reducing the insanely bloated defense budget.  Devil is in the details.   What we will be investing in?  Historically, government jobs training programs have been a failure.

#3.  Disagree with your analysis here.  My question:  why are alleged refugees traveling through safe countries, such as UK or Spain (many African alleged refugees) or Mexico (many Central American alleged refugees) without making a refugee claim in those countries?

On the last point (#3), I am going to take a guess about your roots (European): why didn't your forefathers stop in Iceland and build up a future there? (apologize if you are not European, but in that case I can easily find a substitute for Iceland)


Red_Barchetta said:


mtierney said:
Some do all the talk; others step up..


https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/pro-life-women-deliver-semi-truck-full-of-supplies-72000-to-the-border-79366
 Why can’t you post a link with a comment like ‘here’s some people doing a nice thing’ or something like that? Why does everything have to be a dig at someone else?  Posts like this are concrete examples of YOU doing all the talk while others step up.

(S)he is a conservative. Conservatives have an entitlement complex, meaning they feel they are entitled to everything, and everybody else is entitled to nothing.


basil said:


proeasdf said:
 Thanks for responding with your solutions (a step in the right direction).  A couple comments to your suggestions:


#1.  Agreed,  treat [all of] the people with respect and compassion.


#2.  Agreed, [i]nvest in solving the root problem (middle America) . . . by reducing the insanely bloated defense budget.  Devil is in the details.   What we will be investing in?  Historically, government jobs training programs have been a failure.

#3.  Disagree with your analysis here.  My question:  why are alleged refugees traveling through safe countries, such as UK or Spain (many African alleged refugees) or Mexico (many Central American alleged refugees) without making a refugee claim in those countries?
On the last point (#3), I am going to take a guess about your roots (European): why didn't your forefathers stop in Iceland and build up a future there? (apologize if you are not European, but in that case I can easily find a substitute for Iceland)

 I don't get it.  I have no ancestors who got to the US via Iceland.  AFAIK, ships from the old world rarely stopped in Iceland on there way to new world.  What is your point?


don’t  expect reasoned comments or  responses— just don’t engage the troll.


proeasdf said:
 I don't get it.  I have no ancestors who got to the US via Iceland.  AFAIK, ships from the old world rarely stopped in Iceland on there way to new world.  What is your point?

 Unless you're being deliberately obtuse, I believe the point was that people fleeing from Europe could have just stopped in Iceland, as it's closer.


ridski said:
 Unless you're being deliberately obtuse, I believe the point was that people fleeing from Europe could have just stopped in Iceland, as it's closer.

Yes, that was obviously the point


mtierney said:
don’t  expect reasoned comments or  responses— just don’t engage the troll.

 Another reasoned comment/response posed by you.  


ridski said:


proeasdf said:
 I don't get it.  I have no ancestors who got to the US via Iceland.  AFAIK, ships from the old world rarely stopped in Iceland on there way to new world.  What is your point?
 Unless you're being deliberately obtuse, I believe the point was that people fleeing from Europe could have just stopped in Iceland, as it's closer.

Most/many immigrants (in days of old) to US could not not afford to pay their own way.  As a result, these folks entered into contracts of indentured servitude whereby their future employer (through an agent or two) would pay their way to the colonies (lather the US) in exchange for such contract.   See excerpt from scholarly article posted below.  The would-be-immigrant would then depart on a commercial vessel in fulfillment of their contract.  IOW, the future employer (or their agent) determined the ship and date of passage.  

However, if our would-be-immigrant decided in the middle of the passage to N. America that they wanted to disembark in Iceland then this would have involved serious issues as follows: 

a.)  the Captain of the  ship would have to be convinced to divert from his scheduled route (unlikely a lawful or illegal option for the captain without necessity dictating such diversion);

b.)  if the would-be-immigrant was incredibly determined to get to Iceland then they could foment mutiny (an offense subjecting participants to imprisonment or execution); snd

c.)  breach of the contract by the would-be-immigrant with the employer.


Let us bring our analysis to the modern day world.  Let's say a person resident in Tashkent Uzbekistan claims to be oppressed and books an airplane flight from Tashkent, Uzbekistan to NYC, NY, USA.  The allegedly oppressed Uzbeki has different options depending on the number of stops in the flight booked.

For example, hypothetically the allegedly oppressed Uzbeki has a choice between the following flights:

1.  Non stop flight from Tashkent Uzbekistan to NYC (JFK) (AKA Uzbekistan Airways flight HY101);

2.  One stop flight from Tashkent Uzbekistand to London (Heathrow) and then second flight from London (Heathrow) to JFK.


The question from the prior post is why does the alleged refugee (in this instance, the allegedly oppressed Uzbeki) not apply for asylum in London during the stop at Heathrow in example #2 above. The allegedly oppressed Uzbeki's situation is similar to many of the alleged African refugees at our southern border (in that they have had a stop-over on the flight to Mexico in London or Barcelona - why did such alleged refugees not apply for asylum in London or Barcelona).

Conclusion:  people fleeing Europe in days of old had no ability to opt for Iceland (this is a completely illusory argument as the option was not available to the people fleeing).

PS  ob·tuse  /əbˈt(y)o͞os,äbˈt(y)o͞os/ adjective

1.  annoyingly insensitive or slow to understand.
"he wondered if the doctor was being deliberately obtuse"
synonyms: stupid, dull, slow-witted, slow, dull-witted, unintelligent, witless, half-baked, halfwitted, doltish, lumpish, blockish, imperceptive; More

==================================================

 Indentured Servitude in the Colonial US

https://eh.net/encyclopedia/indentured-servitude-in-the-colonial-u-s/

Because of the cost of passage—which exceeded half a year’s income for a typical British immigrant and a full year’s income for a typical German immigrant—only a small portion of European migrants could afford to pay for their passage to the Americas (Grubb 1985a). They did so by signing contracts, or “indentures,” committing themselves to work for a fixed number of years in the future—their labor being their only viable asset—with British merchants, who then sold these contracts to colonists after their ship reached America. Indentured servitude was introduced by the Virginia Company in 1619 and appears to have arisen from a combination of the terms of two other types of labor contract widely used in England at the time: service in husbandry and apprenticeship (Galenson 1981).


My grandfather came to the US around 1905, leaving behind in Austria, his wife, and three young children. My mom, the youngest, was 5. At some point, perhaps a year later, my grandmother joined him in New York City. It wasn’t until 1911 that the children, left in the care of their grandparents, reunited with their parents. The parents had found work, and a place to live, during their years here.

I have absolutely no clue as to how they found a way to do this. I know my mother was born in Vienna (actually got to visit the church where she had been baptized a few years ago). Her grandparents were farmers and they provided a home for my mom, and her siblings.

Were contracts arranged? What work did they find in Greenwich Village at that time? What did my grandfather do to support his family? I do know my mom worked in a bakery on Bleeker St in the area when she was 14. Bakeries also served lunch back then.

A few of years before he died, my husband asked me to research his roots using Ancestry.com. He had zero computer skills and mine were almost as bad. However, I did the research and he was so happy to learn details about his German heritage. 

I have now added a new item on my bucket list: exploring my Austrian heritage thoroughly. I did check my Irish roots — at least all the old documents were in English, and it was time consuming, but fascinating!

Thanks, for giving me a new goal, proeasdf!


I got married because asking my girlfriend to go to the movies got really expensive and we had to plan it at least a day in advance.


ridski said:
I got married because asking my girlfriend to go to the movies got really expensive and we had to plan it at least a day in advance.

 ?


mtierney said:


ridski said:
I got married because asking my girlfriend to go to the movies got really expensive and we had to plan it at least a day in advance.
 ?

 Sorry, I thought we were sharing immigration stories.


ridski said:


mtierney said:

ridski said:
I got married because asking my girlfriend to go to the movies got really expensive and we had to plan it at least a day in advance.
 ?
 Sorry, I thought we were sharing immigration stories.

According to Mayo Clinic, heat exhaustion is identifiable by heavy sweating, rapid pulse, dizziness, fatigue, cool, moist skin with goose bumps when in theheat, muscle cramps, nausea and headache. ...Heatstroke is the most severe heat-related illness and, without emergency treatment, it can lead to death.


See https://www.accuweather.com/en/weather-news/what-is-heat-exhaustion-heat-stroke-warning-signs-prevention-treatment/58866856


proeasdf said:
According to Mayo Clinic, heat exhaustion is identifiable by heavy sweating, rapid pulse, dizziness, fatigue, cool, moist skin with goose bumps when in theheat, muscle cramps, nausea and headache. ...Heatstroke is the most severe heat-related illness and, without emergency treatment, it can lead to death.


See https://www.accuweather.com/en/weather-news/what-is-heat-exhaustion-heat-stroke-warning-signs-prevention-treatment/58866856

 


basil said:


ridski said:
 Unless you're being deliberately obtuse, I believe the point was that people fleeing from Europe could have just stopped in Iceland, as it's closer.
Yes, that was obviously the point

 Dear Basil,

I am looking for some advice and you are so able to put things into the only two categories that exist (namely, good and bad).  As a result, I am posing the question below to you.

Ridski has posed a question with an absolutely false/illusory assumption (poor people fleeing from Europe were able to divert ships travelling to N. America) and I would like your advice.  


Question:  How should I answer Ridski's question being that it contains an illusory assumption?

Many thanks.


Sincerely your humble servant,

/s/

proeasdf



proeasdf said:
 Dear Basil,
I am looking for some advice and you are so able to put things into the only two categories that exist (namely, good and bad).  As a result, I am posing the question below to you.
Ridski has posed a question with an absolutely false/illusory assumption (poor people fleeing from Europe were able to divert ships travelling to N. America) and I would like your advice.  


Question:  How should I answer Ridski's question being that it contains an illusory assumption?

Many thanks.


Sincerely your humble servant,
/s/
proeasdf


Dear proeasdf,

I would not get distracted by the examples of airplanes and boats, but focus on the core argument he is making, which is that if people flee from A to B, they almost always have other options for places that they could have gone to (C, D, E, ...). They could have fled in another direction, went to another port, take another boat, stayed in the port city itself, etc. So my advice is to engage him on that concept and not get too distracted by the details of the examples.

Your friend, Basil


proeasdf said:
 Dear Basil,
I am looking for some advice and you are so able to put things into the only two categories that exist (namely, good and bad).  As a result, I am posing the question below to you.
Ridski has posed a question with an absolutely false/illusory assumption (poor people fleeing from Europe were able to divert ships travelling to N. America) and I would like your advice.  


Question:  How should I answer Ridski's question being that it contains an illusory assumption?

Many thanks.


Sincerely your humble servant,
/s/
proeasdf


 Unless you’re being deliberately obtuse, I was explaining basil’s point, and I never asked any questions.

Please continue your conversation with basil, your inability to read has nothing to do with me.


proeasdf said:


Conclusion:  people fleeing Europe in days of old had no ability to opt for Iceland (this is a completely illusory argument as the option was not available to the people fleeing).


I'm confused -- when proeasdf says "Europe," do they mean specifically people who lived in countries with port cities with ships to N. America? How is talk of Iceland relevant to discussing someone who caught passage in, say, Hamburg but began their journey in some sthetl in Poland-Lithuania? Is proeasdf basing their analogies in the reality for all, or just their own personal reality?


finnegan said:
Priests and Sisters Arrested with Protesters at Immigration Demonstration on Capitol Hill
http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/priests-and-sisters-arrested-with-protesters-at-immigration-demonstration-o



 From the link:

“The crisis isn’t the people coming in, the crisis is what is happening to the people when they try to enter,” she said. “They’re seeking to live with dignity. Many people are seeking asylum and their rights are being denied. We have to act against that.” 

Frikker said that she advocates for policy options to address immigration, asylum processing, and detention at the border which do not require changes to infrastructure.

“Instead of building a wall, I would increase our judicial system [in a way] that would allow the processing of immigrants and their asylum cases so they could enter here,” she said.  

Katie Murphy, a local resident and Catholic, said she was attending the event out of “concern for the children, and also for the character of our nation, the soul of our nation.” 

“I feel that the way we treat the most vulnerable is who we are, is like our character. I am deeply saddened and distraught over what our nation is doing. We have a crisis on the border, and we need to address that crisis in a way that dignifies the values that we stand for.” 

The demonstration occurred just days after the president of the U.S. bishops’ conference publicly denounced action by the Trump administration to tighten rules on asylum seeking at the southern border, and to enforce court-ordered removals against thousands of people who had exhausted their legal appeals to remain in the country.”

One observation missing in these comments is “How?” We all know the human tragedy at our borders. No one has come up with a magic wand. When this international issue stops being a political partisan “you show me yours, I’ll show me mind” mentality, a plan might just be developed. In the meantime, the suffering continues.

Whatever the plan, it will take time  processing the immigrants, housing, and providing to their health needs. Thank God there are those who act, not just talk.



Mtierney, do you support Trump on immigration?


Father D'Silva, who in 2002 called on Cardinal Bernard Law from Boston to resign for covering up abuses by pedophile priests, now calls on Trump to resign as President for spewing "hatred, bigotry, and intolerance" from the White House.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/24/opinion/catholic-priest-trump-racism.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage


What would SinterKlaas do?


Robert_Casotto said:
What would SinterKlaas do?

 What a nasty comment!


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