The challenges ahead for Pope Francis, Catholics, and the Church worldwide
Mar 17, 2013 at 1:03pm Edited
Yes, what to do about a worldwide conspiracy to protect and assist thousands of pedophiles within your ranks. Oh, I don't know how about round them all up, expel them, and let the world know that you will cooperate with any investigations to come. And start with the old man camping out in your back yard.
Problem #1 solved. I'd do that job for free.
Problem #1 solved. I'd do that job for free.
What does "age of relativism" mean? What changes would you like to see the Pope bring?
This really is so very simple to any sane person. Totally agree with what Red says. Anything less continues the atrocity.
Stuff like this doesn't help: http://news.yahoo.com/south-africa-cardinal-says-pedophilia-not-crime-155418854.html
That headline certainly doesn't help matters. The cardinal tries to draw out a distinction between criminal acts and actions of a mentally disturbed persons, damaged by prior abuse themselves. Talk about stepping in it and opening a can of worms all in one.
Part of me knows what he is saying but I'm also very disappointed in what he leaves out, what he glosses over and etc. Kinda hard to polish a turd.
Part of me knows what he is saying but I'm also very disappointed in what he leaves out, what he glosses over and etc. Kinda hard to polish a turd.
From our friends at Wikipedia :
Roman Catholicism
See also: Relativism#Catholic Church and relativism
Catholic and some secular intellectuals attribute the perceived post-war decadence of Europe to the displacement of absolute values by moral relativism. Pope Benedict XVI, Marcello Pera and others have argued that after about 1960, Europeans massively abandoned many traditional norms rooted in Christianity and replaced them with continuously evolving relative moral rules. In this view, sexual activity has become separated from procreation, which led to a decline in the importance of families and to depopulation. As a result, currently the population vacuum in Europe is filled by immigrants, often from Islamic countries, who attempt to reestablish absolute values which stand at odds with moral relativism.[19] The most authoritative response to moral relativism from the Roman Catholic perspective can be found in Veritatis Splendor, an encyclical by Pope John Paul II. Many of the main criticisms of moral relativism by the Catholic Church relate largely to modern controversies, such as elective abortion.
[edit]Buddhism
Bhikkhu Bodhi, an American Buddhist monk, has written: "By assigning value and spiritual ideals to private subjectivity, the materialistic world view ... threatens to undermine any secure objective foundation for morality. The result is the widespread moral degeneration that we witness today. To counter this tendency, mere moral exhortation is insufficient. If morality is to function as an efficient guide to conduct, it cannot be propounded as a self-justifying scheme but must be embedded in a more comprehensive spiritual system which grounds morality in a transpersonal order. Religion must affirm, in the clearest terms, that morality and ethical values are not mere decorative frills of personal opinion, not subjective superstructure, but intrinsic laws of the cosmos built into the heart of reality."[20]
[edit]See also
Roman Catholicism
See also: Relativism#Catholic Church and relativism
Catholic and some secular intellectuals attribute the perceived post-war decadence of Europe to the displacement of absolute values by moral relativism. Pope Benedict XVI, Marcello Pera and others have argued that after about 1960, Europeans massively abandoned many traditional norms rooted in Christianity and replaced them with continuously evolving relative moral rules. In this view, sexual activity has become separated from procreation, which led to a decline in the importance of families and to depopulation. As a result, currently the population vacuum in Europe is filled by immigrants, often from Islamic countries, who attempt to reestablish absolute values which stand at odds with moral relativism.[19] The most authoritative response to moral relativism from the Roman Catholic perspective can be found in Veritatis Splendor, an encyclical by Pope John Paul II. Many of the main criticisms of moral relativism by the Catholic Church relate largely to modern controversies, such as elective abortion.
[edit]Buddhism
Bhikkhu Bodhi, an American Buddhist monk, has written: "By assigning value and spiritual ideals to private subjectivity, the materialistic world view ... threatens to undermine any secure objective foundation for morality. The result is the widespread moral degeneration that we witness today. To counter this tendency, mere moral exhortation is insufficient. If morality is to function as an efficient guide to conduct, it cannot be propounded as a self-justifying scheme but must be embedded in a more comprehensive spiritual system which grounds morality in a transpersonal order. Religion must affirm, in the clearest terms, that morality and ethical values are not mere decorative frills of personal opinion, not subjective superstructure, but intrinsic laws of the cosmos built into the heart of reality."[20]
[edit]See also
Absolutes like "rape is wrong and rapists should be immediately handed over to the police"?
That's an absolute I absolutely could get behind.
That's an absolute I absolutely could get behind.
IM80 said:
...but intrinsic laws of the cosmos built into the heart of reality."
Nah, I'm thinking that "age of relativism" refers to relativity, as in physics. In order to truly save Catholicism, the Pope and the entire Roman Curia will be loaded onto a spacecraft and shot into space at relativistic speeds. With the worst of the vermin cleared out of Vatican City, the baubles, bangles and artwork can be auctioned off, and the laity can reclaim their church and their religion.
We have established the principal that all the buggering and lying is caused by post war decadence and the leaders of the church had nothing to do with it.
So lets go to my second question. What changes would you like to see the pope bring?
So lets go to my second question. What changes would you like to see the pope bring?
Mar 17, 2013 at 7:33pm Edited
If I'm on the deck of an ocean liner that is traveling 40 miles per hour and I begin running toward the aft at 5 miles per hour, how long will it take before IM80 is wrong about relativity? And how long for observers not on the ship?
Let's see...if Dave's ocean liner is traveling 40 miles/hour (64km/hour), and he's running aft at 5 miles/hour (8 km/hour), and the Earth rotates at 1,675 km/hour at the equator, and it revolves around the sun at 108,000 km/hour, and the solar system rotates around the Milky Way at 792,000 kilometers/hour, and the Local Group of galaxies is heading towards the center of the Virgo Supercluster at 1.6 million kilometers/hour, and the Virgo SuperCluster is heading towards the Great Attractor at 22 million kilometers/hour, then IM80 will not have enough time to reach that conclusion before the Heat Death of the Universe.
...unless Dave stops for a few beers at the midships bar, in which case....no, IM80 still won't have enough time.
...unless Dave stops for a few beers at the midships bar, in which case....no, IM80 still won't have enough time.
Of course, by then, the conservatives in the Church may have returned to Geocentrism and then they can just deal with Dave the way they dealt with Galileo.
But what if Dave is on a Carnival Cruise Line vessel and the bathrooms break and Dave eats some bad sea food and Dave has the trots and has to make a sideways detour, running around looking for a bathroom that isn't broken and can't find one?
jerseyjack said:
But what if Dave is on a Carnival Cruise Line vessel and the bathrooms break and Dave eats some bad sea food and Dave has the trots and has to make a sideways detour, running around looking for a bathroom that isn't broken and can't find one?
He should have thought of that before he became a non-believer. What goes around, comes around.
Never Carnival. Queen Victoria under Cunard's banner, perhaps. Floated by it today. That thing is HUGE.
dave said:
Never Carnival. Queen Victoria under Cunard's banner, perhaps. Floated by it today. That thing is HUGE.
That's some ship!
But then, Carnival owns Cunard.dave said:
Never Carnival. Queen Victoria under Cunard's banner, perhaps. Floated by it today. That thing is HUGE.
dave said:
Never Carnival. Queen Victoria under Cunard's banner, perhaps. Floated by it today. That thing is HUGE.
If they get any effin' larger, they won't have to go out to sea. You'll be able to board at the stern and walk to the bow, which will stretch all the way to your destination. It'll give new meaning to the 'bridge' of the ship.
Exactly. If they get any bigger, they'll have to take into account the curve of the Earth during construction.
) 
Pedophilia is a chronic condition with no known cure. When the church relocated the offenders to protect them from apprehension and prosecution, the crime continued unabated. The church acted swiftly to reign in nuns that the church felt had "gone rogue." But not one of the nuns who were threatened with expulsion had ever come under the suspicion of felonious sexual assault.
USA Today: The Catholic Church in the USA has spent $2.5 billion in confronting the clergy sex abuse crisis.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/03/13/sex-abuse-settlement-cardinal-roger-mahony/1984217/
USA Today: The Catholic Church in the USA has spent $2.5 billion in confronting the clergy sex abuse crisis.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/03/13/sex-abuse-settlement-cardinal-roger-mahony/1984217/
ridski said:
Stuff like this doesn't help: http://news.yahoo.com/south-africa-cardinal-says-pedophilia-not-crime-155418854.html
I find this shocking on so many levels. What happened to the concept of free will? Last I went to church (a long time ago) we were taught that all human beings have it, and the least of us can choose not to do evil acts.
Oh, except for priests.
IOW we're all damaged, more or less, but that doesn't eliminate our human capacity to choose good over evil.
Pope Francis' first public act was to request prayers for him as he begins his role as leader of 1.2 billion Catholics across the world. He knows it won't be easy. I for one will pray for his success. Most here seem to prefer to wallow in schadenfreude.
ridski said:
Stuff like this doesn't help: http://news.yahoo.com/south-africa-cardinal-says-pedophilia-not-crime-155418854.html
So let me try to grok this ... from the above article pedophilia is a disease for which we need to have understanding for the perpetrators, "Now don't tell me that those people are criminally responsible like somebody who chooses to do something like that. I don't think you can really take the position and say that person deserves to be punished. He was himself damaged."
But gays adopting is discrimination against children: http://www.salon.com/2013/03/14/pope_francis_on_gay_rights_his_5_worst_quotes/
According to the National Catholic Reporter, Francis called gay adoption a form of “discrimination against children" and an Argentinian Senate vote on gay marriage is being directly caused by Satan?
Okay I'm having trouble keeping up here ... priests inappropriately touch kids and we need to help them, gay people adopt kids who otherwise would have no family and they are evil?
Mar 18, 2013 at 9:30am Edited
mtierney said:
Pope Francis' first public act was to request prayers for him as he begins his role as leader of 1.2 billion Catholics across the world. He knows it won't be easy. I for one will pray for his success. Most here seem to prefer to wallow in schadenfreude.
Schadenfreude, huh? If you see anyone laughing about this, it's because the alternative involves pitchforks and flaming torches.
I'm not a praying kind of person, but if the new pope is prepared to start turning criminals over to the police across the world, I'm completely behind him 100%.
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I believe Douthat expresses the current anger and hostility toward the Catholic Church reasonably and on topic. Pray God grants Pope Francis the strength to carry the Church forward in this age of relativism.