Russian Propaganda machine

Paul - it's toughs to keep track of the Russian news source in the one thread.  I believe you wanted to provide context for what they're reporting to their country.  So I'll try to add my previous posts and new ones here for your response.   TIA

Azov militants shot civilians trying to get out of Mariupol

The militants of the "Azov" unit shot down a column of civilians who were trying to leave Mariupol along the humanitarian corridor of the M23 highway in the direction of Novoazovsk, the People's Militia of the DPR reported in its Telegram channel."

According to preliminary information, two civilians were killed and four were injured," the statement said.  At the same time, the department noted, the military personnel of the Donetsk People's Republic and the Russian Armed Forces ensured a safe exit from the city for about 150 people.


I'll keep these as separate posts so that it's easier to respond to each one:

The people of Ukraine must cleanse itself of Nazism

https://ria.ru/20220304/dolgov-1776326702.html?in=t

- Threats have been growing in recent years, this is not some one-time act or some action that prompted our president to decide to launch a special military operation. There are two interrelated dimensions here, two key problems and two threats that the Kiev leadership created, those authorities that, unfortunately, were essentially held hostage by extreme nationalists, the Euro-Nazis, and who gave their sovereignty, the sovereignty of the country of Ukraine , into the hands of the United States and their allies.

It is clear that this is such a direct and obvious threat to our security. Here are two key measurements. Well, plus, of course, it is absolutely impossible to admit that the territory of our brotherly state, Ukraine, with which we are connected by centuries-old ties, practically a significant part of history, was under the rule of the Nazis. And, of course, we cannot allow this. This is what necessitated a special military operation. This is not a conflict between Russia and Ukraine, as the Ukrainian and Western media are trying to present, and, unfortunately, some journalists here too. We are not at war with Ukraine, we are conducting this operation against military infrastructure that is under hostile control to us, including by the Nazis. Demilitarization, denazification - these are the key goals of Ukraine, the key goals that are interrelated,


The fire at the nuclear power plant was no biggie and was started by a Ukranian sabotage group.

https://ria.ru/20220304/aes-1776460644.html?in=t

At the bottom of every article it has the following:

On February 21, Vladimir Putin , in response to the requests of the Donbass republics, signed decrees recognizing the sovereignty of the LPR and the DPR . Early on the morning of February 24, Russia launched a military special operation to demilitarize Ukraine . According to the Ministry of Defense, the Armed Forces only strike at military infrastructure and Ukrainian troops. There are casualties on both sides.

In response , the US , EU countries and several other states have imposed new sanctions against Moscow . According to the presidential press secretary Dmitry Peskov , the restrictions of the West are very serious, but Russia was preparing for them in advance.

----------------------------------------------

Feel free to react to the legitimacy of the decrees recognizing the LPR and DPR. Is this truly a "Special military operation" that isn't targeting civilians, as Putin and co repeats?


Ukraine could become a nuclear country in the near future, a source said

https://ria.ru/20220306/ukraina-1776879786.html

So let's start with this. How close is Ukraine to getting a nuke?


The Ministry of Defense confirmed that bioweapons were being developed in Ukraine

https://ria.ru/20220306/biooruzhie-1776951830.html

Moscow received documents from employees of Ukrainian biological laboratories confirming that components of biological weapons were being developed in Ukraine, in close proximity to Russian territory.


Ukrainian Nazis found laptop with intelligence and NATO markings

Pushilin: a laptop with intelligence and NATO markings was found at the headquarters of the Ukrainian Nazis

In one of the headquarters of the Ukrainian Nazis, they found a laptop with intelligence data, which has a licensed NATO registry number, said the head of the DPR, Denis Pushilin.

"According to our intelligence and the testimony of prisoners, the offensive operation was supposed to begin on March 8 of this year. The facts indicate that the invasion was planned simultaneously both on the territory of the Donbass republics and on the Russian Federation - in Crimea," he said.

The head of the DPR showed a map of the Crimea with the positions of the troops marked on it.

------------------

(I haven't been able to find other info in regards to this, sounds like something Greenwald and Mate would have better info on.)


Western "machine" media has driven its citizens to madness, said Zakharova

https://ria.ru/20220306/zakharova-1776932620.html

"We must pay tribute to the information and political machine of the West, which, through social networks, through instant messengers and mailing lists, naturally, through the media, has brought the population of their countries to some level of insanity. This is the land to which the same "Western machine" has approached. by simply turning their people from people who seemed to be told about some high principles, into people who are already on the edge of some kind of nationalism. That's for sure, "she said.

-------------------------------------

I figured I'd offer a softball one for you (and nan).  But perhaps you could comment on the assault on the press with your response here.  Should the Russian people see what's happening on the ground?  How do you think news should be disseminated?  Is a 15 year sentence for using the word "war" justified?


About 2.5 thousand people took part in the uncoordinated rally in Moscow

https://ria.ru/20220306/aktsiya-1776947414.html

"The units of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Russia, in cooperation with other law enforcement agencies, ensured law and order in places where unauthorized public events were held in a number of constituent entities of the Russian Federation . In the city of Moscow , about 2,500 people took part in an uncoordinated action, 1,700 were detained. In the city of St. Petersburg , the number of participants was approximately 1,500 people , 750 of them were detained," she said.

------------------------

No need to respond to this one.  It was just interesting to note that a protest was covered in their "news" site, but I would say it was more as a deterrent to show how many were detained than anything else.  Also funny that they used "uncoordinated" as if it was possible to do otherwise.


Foreigners will also be punished for fakes about the Russian army, Khinshtein said

https://ria.ru/20220304/feyki-1776492781.html?in=t

The norms of the law on criminal liability for the dissemination of fake information about the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation apply not only to Russian citizens, but also to foreigners, said Alexander Khinshtein, Chairman of the State Duma Committee on Information Policy, Information Technologies and Communications."The law applies to all citizens, not only Russian ones, because we are talking about actions against Russia," Khinshtein told reporters.


Ok, that's all for now.  For me what is key is how the state sponsored news is portraying the state of the world at the moment.  Things will never change unless change starts from within.  As long as Putin controls the narrative and suppresses demonstrations, he will do whatever he likes.

I had mentioned it above - this is how every articles ends and is the reason for the current military action.  NATO is NOT mentioned.  It was a request from the Dombass republics - period.  But if you want to frame it according to you POV - please go ahead.

On February 21, Vladimir Putin , in response to the requests of the Donbass republics, signed decrees recognizing the sovereignty of the LPR and the DPR . Early on the morning of February 24, Russia launched a military special operation to demilitarize Ukraine . According to the Ministry of Defense, the Armed Forces only strike at military infrastructure and Ukrainian troops. There are casualties on both sides.

In response , the US , EU countries and several other states have imposed new sanctions against Moscow . According to the presidential press secretary Dmitry Peskov , the restrictions of the West are very serious, but Russia was preparing for them in advance.

Sleazy headline Jamie.

Please change to: "Russian propaganda posted by Jamie: Surovell provides Western view"


jamie said:

Paul - it's toughs to keep track of the Russian news source in the one thread.  I believe you wanted to provide context for what they're reporting to their country.  So I'll try to add my previous posts and new ones here for your response.   TIA

Azov militants shot civilians trying to get out of Mariupol

The militants of the "Azov" unit shot down a column of civilians who were trying to leave Mariupol along the humanitarian corridor of the M23 highway in the direction of Novoazovsk, the People's Militia of the DPR reported in its Telegram channel."

According to preliminary information, two civilians were killed and four were injured," the statement said.  At the same time, the department noted, the military personnel of the Donetsk People's Republic and the Russian Armed Forces ensured a safe exit from the city for about 150 people.


cramer said:

jamie said:

Paul - it's toughs to keep track of the Russian news source in the one thread.  I believe you wanted to provide context for what they're reporting to their country.  So I'll try to add my previous posts and new ones here for your response.   TIA

Azov militants shot civilians trying to get out of Mariupol

The militants of the "Azov" unit shot down a column of civilians who were trying to leave Mariupol along the humanitarian corridor of the M23 highway in the direction of Novoazovsk, the People's Militia of the DPR reported in its Telegram channel."

According to preliminary information, two civilians were killed and four were injured," the statement said.  At the same time, the department noted, the military personnel of the Donetsk People's Republic and the Russian Armed Forces ensured a safe exit from the city for about 150 people.

Click to Read More

cramer said:

jamie said:

Paul - it's toughs to keep track of the Russian news source in the one thread.  I believe you wanted to provide context for what they're reporting to their country.  So I'll try to add my previous posts and new ones here for your response.   TIA

Azov militants shot civilians trying to get out of Mariupol

The militants of the "Azov" unit shot down a column of civilians who were trying to leave Mariupol along the humanitarian corridor of the M23 highway in the direction of Novoazovsk, the People's Militia of the DPR reported in its Telegram channel."

According to preliminary information, two civilians were killed and four were injured," the statement said.  At the same time, the department noted, the military personnel of the Donetsk People's Republic and the Russian Armed Forces ensured a safe exit from the city for about 150 people.

Context: 

https://greekcitytimes.com/2022/03/01/greek-in-mariupol-fascist-ukrainian/


paulsurovell said:

Context:

https://greekcitytimes.com/2022/03/01/greek-in-mariupol-fascist-ukrainian/

In which a Greek TV network speaks to and quotes one (“a Mr. Kiouranas”) of the reportedly 120,000-plus ethnic Greeks in Mariupol.

A quick search found these other articles about Greeks in Mariupol.

Greeks killed by Russian strikes: https://greekreporter.com/2022/02/26/10-greeks-killed-mariupol-ukraine/

Greeks leaving Mariupol: https://greekreporter.com/2022/03/02/greeks-evacuate-ukraine-mariupol/

Greeks warned of a possible Russian attack under the false flag of Azov, and reminded “that as of 2015, the Azov Brigade (formerly comprised of volunteers) is part of the Ukrainian Army, does not operate autonomously, and acts only in the framework of Ukrainian Army operations. Many diaspora Greeks are serving in its ranks”: https://www.tanea.gr/2022/03/02/english-edition/horrifying-evacuation-of-greeks-from-mariupol-after-ukrainian-warning-of-planned-russian-provocation/

When reliable information is in short supply, it’s easy for anyone to see what he or she wants to see and make too much of it. (Including reports of the killing of Denis Kireev, who either was or wasn’t a member of a Ukrainian peace delegation, either was or wasn’t a double agent, and was either condemned as a traitor or hailed as a hero by the Ukrainian government.)


Ukrainian radicals carry out ethnic cleansing, Defense Ministry says

https://ria.ru/20220306/radikaly-1776967699.html

Ukrainian radicals are carrying out ethnic cleansing and checking the passports of local residents, the interdepartmental coordinating headquarters for humanitarian response in Ukraine said.

All those who do not have a Ukrainian passport are being taken away by the militants in an unknown direction, the headquarters noted.


SBU is preparing a provocation with radioactive contamination of Kharkov

https://ria.ru/20220307/provokatsiya-1776985186.html

The Security Service of Ukraine, together with nationalists, is preparing a provocation with possible radioactive contamination of the area in the Kharkov region, the Russian Defense Ministry said.

"The SBU and the militants of the Azov battalion are planning to blow up the reactor and accuse the Russian Armed Forces of allegedly launching a missile attack on an experimental nuclear facility," the Defense Ministry added.


This is an odd article, kinda obvious - I posted pretty much the whole thing - and as always there's the standard footer in it explaining the Donbass request for the military operation which will not affect civilians in Ukraine:

The Foreign Ministry told how the crisis in Ukraine will affect relations with the EU and the US

https://ria.ru/20220307/otnosheniya-1776987821.html

The result of the current events around Ukraine will be a new quality of Russia's relations with Europe, the United States and NATO as a whole, Oleg Tyapkin, director of the third European Department of the Foreign Ministry, said in an interview with RIA Novosti.

"We proceed from the fact that as a result of current events, our country will have a new quality of relations both with European countries and the EU as a whole, as well as with the United States and the North Atlantic Alliance led by them," he said.


Ministry of Defense: in Kherson, nationalists tried to disrupt the issuance of humanitarian aid

https://ria.ru/20220307/natsionalisty-1776991116.html

Ukrainian nationalists in Kherson tried to arrange provocations and intimidate people during the distribution of Russian humanitarian aid, the press service of the Ministry of Defense reports.

More than 140 tons of humanitarian aid were delivered to the residents of Kherson and nearby settlements.

"During the distribution of food packages, Ukrainian nationalists tried to organize provocations in order to prevent the transfer of humanitarian aid to the local population, and also sought to intimidate people who came for food," the report says.

The Ministry of Defense stressed that thanks to the skillful actions and endurance of the Russian military, it was possible to avoid violations of law and order.

-----------------------------

For Paul - here's the Western take:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/03/04/kherson-ukraine-russia/

So how do we discern which viewpoint is accurate?


jamie said:

Paul - it's toughs to keep track of the Russian news source in the one thread.  I believe you wanted to provide context for what they're reporting to their country.  So I'll try to add my previous posts and new ones here for your response.   TIA

Azov militants shot civilians trying to get out of Mariupol

The militants of the "Azov" unit shot down a column of civilians who were trying to leave Mariupol along the humanitarian corridor of the M23 highway in the direction of Novoazovsk, the People's Militia of the DPR reported in its Telegram channel."

According to preliminary information, two civilians were killed and four were injured," the statement said.  At the same time, the department noted, the military personnel of the Donetsk People's Republic and the Russian Armed Forces ensured a safe exit from the city for about 150 people.

It would be good to have some Western reporters on the scene. The problem with the Western narrative -- that the Russians fired on the civilians who were trying to leave -- is that the Russians want the civilians out of the way so they can go full force on the Azov forces in Mariupol. The claim that Azov is preventing civilians from leaving because they need them for human shields is credible, especially given the neo-nazi ideology of Azov.

Here's an anecdotal report from a Greek national in Mariupol which backs this theory:


jamie said:

I'll keep these as separate posts so that it's easier to respond to each one:

The people of Ukraine must cleanse itself of Nazism

https://ria.ru/20220304/dolgov-1776326702.html?in=t

- Threats have been growing in recent years, this is not some one-time act or some action that prompted our president to decide to launch a special military operation. There are two interrelated dimensions here, two key problems and two threats that the Kiev leadership created, those authorities that, unfortunately, were essentially held hostage by extreme nationalists, the Euro-Nazis, and who gave their sovereignty, the sovereignty of the country of Ukraine , into the hands of the United States and their allies.

It is clear that this is such a direct and obvious threat to our security. Here are two key measurements. Well, plus, of course, it is absolutely impossible to admit that the territory of our brotherly state, Ukraine, with which we are connected by centuries-old ties, practically a significant part of history, was under the rule of the Nazis. And, of course, we cannot allow this. This is what necessitated a special military operation. This is not a conflict between Russia and Ukraine, as the Ukrainian and Western media are trying to present, and, unfortunately, some journalists here too. We are not at war with Ukraine, we are conducting this operation against military infrastructure that is under hostile control to us, including by the Nazis. Demilitarization, denazification - these are the key goals of Ukraine, the key goals that are interrelated,

The big flaw here is the implication that the Ukraine state is controlled by the neo-nazi movements in Ukraine. However, these movements do have limited influence and have reportedly dissuaded Zelensky from implementing the Minsk accords. Ottawa prof. Ivan Katchanovski who opposes the invasion and denies the "nazi" label for Ukraine, posted an Azov threat to Zelensky for agreeing to talks with Russia.


jamie said:

Ukraine could become a nuclear country in the near future, a source said

https://ria.ru/20220306/ukraina-1776879786.html

This Western source links to a UNIAN, a Ukrainian news service which posted this 2021 statement by Ukraine's ambassador to Germany:

jamie said:

The fire at the nuclear power plant was no biggie and was started by a Ukranian sabotage group.

https://ria.ru/20220304/aes-1776460644.html?in=t

At the bottom of every article it has the following:

On February 21, Vladimir Putin , in response to the requests of the Donbass republics, signed decrees recognizing the sovereignty of the LPR and the DPR . Early on the morning of February 24, Russia launched a military special operation to demilitarize Ukraine . According to the Ministry of Defense, the Armed Forces only strike at military infrastructure and Ukrainian troops. There are casualties on both sides.

In response , the US , EU countries and several other states have imposed new sanctions against Moscow . According to the presidential press secretary Dmitry Peskov , the restrictions of the West are very serious, but Russia was preparing for them in advance.

----------------------------------------------

Feel free to react to the legitimacy of the decrees recognizing the LPR and DPR. Is this truly a "Special military operation" that isn't targeting civilians, as Putin and co repeats?

No such thing as "no biggie" in a nuclear complex, but I've seen some Western reports that said "Russia bombed a nuclear reactor". Reuters set the record straight:


jamie said:

Ukrainian radicals carry out ethnic cleansing, Defense Ministry says

https://ria.ru/20220306/radikaly-1776967699.html

Ukrainian radicals are carrying out ethnic cleansing and checking the passports of local residents, the interdepartmental coordinating headquarters for humanitarian response in Ukraine said.

All those who do not have a Ukrainian passport are being taken away by the militants in an unknown direction, the headquarters noted.

Propaganda.


jamie said:

The Ministry of Defense confirmed that bioweapons were being developed in Ukraine

https://ria.ru/20220306/biooruzhie-1776951830.html

Moscow received documents from employees of Ukrainian biological laboratories confirming that components of biological weapons were being developed in Ukraine, in close proximity to Russian territory.

If you're going to claim something like that, you need to show some evidence. Reports that Russian troops are "blowing up" bioweapons labs sound almost as insane as bombing a nuclear power plant.


jamie said:

Ukrainian Nazis found laptop with intelligence and NATO markings

Pushilin: a laptop with intelligence and NATO markings was found at the headquarters of the Ukrainian Nazis

In one of the headquarters of the Ukrainian Nazis, they found a laptop with intelligence data, which has a licensed NATO registry number, said the head of the DPR, Denis Pushilin.

"According to our intelligence and the testimony of prisoners, the offensive operation was supposed to begin on March 8 of this year. The facts indicate that the invasion was planned simultaneously both on the territory of the Donbass republics and on the Russian Federation - in Crimea," he said.

The head of the DPR showed a map of the Crimea with the positions of the troops marked on it.

------------------

(I haven't been able to find other info in regards to this, sounds like something Greenwald and Mate would have better info on.)

If you have it but you don't show the evidence, then you probably don't have it.


jamie said:

Western "machine" media has driven its citizens to madness, said Zakharova

https://ria.ru/20220306/zakharova-1776932620.html

"We must pay tribute to the information and political machine of the West, which, through social networks, through instant messengers and mailing lists, naturally, through the media, has brought the population of their countries to some level of insanity. This is the land to which the same "Western machine" has approached. by simply turning their people from people who seemed to be told about some high principles, into people who are already on the edge of some kind of nationalism. That's for sure, "she said.

-------------------------------------

I figured I'd offer a softball one for you (and nan).  But perhaps you could comment on the assault on the press with your response here.  Should the Russian people see what's happening on the ground?  How do you think news should be disseminated?  Is a 15 year sentence for using the word "war" justified?

The Russians should have access to everything and so should we. Our mainstream media is monolithic, except for rare instances like this:

https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/russia-s-ukraine-invasion-may-have-been-preventable-n1290831

Here's a pretty good debate on China television (CGTN):

https://twitter.com/VGolstein/status/1499869274101501952?s=20&t=5_WwbR-hf6aNBN_AFb8Jmw


jamie said:

Foreigners will also be punished for fakes about the Russian army, Khinshtein said

https://ria.ru/20220304/feyki-1776492781.html?in=t

The norms of the law on criminal liability for the dissemination of fake information about the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation apply not only to Russian citizens, but also to foreigners, said Alexander Khinshtein, Chairman of the State Duma Committee on Information Policy, Information Technologies and Communications."The law applies to all citizens, not only Russian ones, because we are talking about actions against Russia," Khinshtein told reporters.

Censorship.


paulsurovell said:

 Our mainstream media is monolithic, 



What mainstream media?  Not the 50+% of Americans who have FOX or OAN a their primary news source.


Mr. Surovell's excuses for the Russian propaganda are even worse than the original Russian propaganda.


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