SaveMillburn.com

speaking about membership, dave and proselytizing are 2 very different concepts.
oops, broigus, you messed up and let the cat out the bag, it seems. I will be on the lookout for anyone approaching strangers and teens and kids in particular about religion near schools, parks and sporting events. Look out for these vans broigus describes. If you think is ok, you and I differ. From what you've said, Broigus, they are approaching people who LOOK Jewish. now you're sidestepping. Nice try at a save, though!

OK, I'm back in: While I'll admit to being personally torn about this issue (See my previous posts), I think it's interesting that Broigus' seems to be the sole avowedly Jewish Millburn voice on this thread, and he's flip-flopped to a supportive stance (where the zoning is concerned, anyhow...). I'm not suggesting that footballmom is an alarmist, either....

I dunno... Perhaps this was the way things began back in Cedarhurst, with the only outcry originally coming from the Gentile community... with the less Orthodox Jewish folks either not seeing what was coming or shrugging it off as no biggie...

I do know this: The Chai Center's website links directly to Chabad's, which is clearly a Hassidic/Lubovitch site, complete with a slideshow of historical pics of The Rebbe, etc., etc...

...And given what appears to be a close affinity to the sect responsible for the radical alterations I've described to the area where I was raised, it seems to me (a Jewish Agnostic) just a bit disingenuous for Rabbi Bogomilsky to claim that "all are welcome", without adding a disclaimer that, from a longer-term religious perspective, it'll be his way or the highway.

I loved my old Five Towns stamping grounds, and I'm devastated by the changes there. I've come to love our little corner of Essex County, too, as (I'm sure) have all the posters on this thread. I wonder if there's a point where change becomes inevitable. I wonder how close that point might be in Millburn.

-s.

BTW: I haven't seen the MitzvahMobile tooling around here yet, either. Have you?

Posted By: footballmomoh my -you are in deep Broigus ...

Rants like those seen above probably have a cause beyond a concern for land use and parking, imho.

And for Soda -

The only time I ever felt 100% justified in telling a lie, was at my office where two young men from Chabad-Lubavitch were going throughout the building on a Friday, looking for Jewish men to present Sabbath Bread to. My Jewish business colleague told me, "Tell them I'm at a meeting!"

:wink:Good one.

-s.

Posted By: noheroAnd for Soda -

The only time I ever felt 100% justified in telling a lie, was at my office where two young men from Chabad-Lubavitch were going throughout the building on a Friday, looking for Jewish men to present Sabbath Bread to. My Jewish business colleague told me, "Tell them I'm at a meeting!"

Challah is real good and kind of pricey. Should have taken a loaf.

nohero, rant? beyond parking? sorry, there's no hidden agenda on my side. No bigotry. That's the shul's role -- lies & a hidden agenda based on actions: They were not even a shul, yet advertised that they were a shul. We are protecting our neighbors in a residential neighborhood from a large commercial institution decimating their home value and quality of life-- the neighbors are from many walks of life -- Not just yours! They are Jewish, Catholic, Hindu, Protestant and more. All types are welcome in our town! No one is allowed to break the law re: zoning, not even chabad lubavitchers - zoning should be applied evenly to all.

based on this, what is to stop the next 20 religious institutions (churches, shuls, temples, mosques, etc)/schools from opening in private houses all over town, one say in the residential poet section, one on fairfield, one on glenwood, etc.... Why wouldn't they, then? Just tear the house down, put up a religious school and prayer area and if anyone says boo - scream "BIGOTRY"! all the while ... the tax base for the town will be diminished.

Posted By: broigusChallah is real good and kind of pricey. Should have taken a loaf.

I believe that he knows of the saying, "There is no such thing as a free lunch." :wink:

[Edited to add] And yes, I know I should have written "ain't" instead of "is no", in order to invoke the classic Robert Heinlein acronym, "TANSTAAFL". But, good grammar is another one of my failings ...

footballmom, some of your earlier posts in this thread made some good points, but the tone of your more recent posts borders on hysterical. I'm starting to doubt your credibility. Maybe tone down the emotion and stick to the facts instead of attacking broigus for offering an opposing outlook.

This issue has to be dealt with purely on a legal basis. Other concerns of proselytizing really says very little about legal objections to the building. And honestly, IMO, this application could be a church or other type of house of worship and I would feel the same.

Posted By: footballmomnohero, rant? beyond parking? sorry, there's no hidden agenda on my side. No bigotry. That's the shul's role -- lies & a hidden agenda based on actions: They were not even a shul, yet advertised that they were a shul. We are protecting our neighbors in a residential neighborhood from a large commercial institution decimating their home value and quality of life-- the neighbors are from many walks of life -- Not just yours! They are Jewish, Catholic, Hindu, Protestant and more. All types are welcome in our town! No one is allowed to break the law re: zoning, not even chabad lubavitchers - zoning should be applied evenly to all.

based on this, what is to stop the next 20 religious institutions (churches, shuls, temples, mosques, etc)/schools from opening in private houses all over town, one say in the residential poet section, one on fairfield, one on glenwood, etc.... Why wouldn't they, then? Just tear the house down, put up a religious school and prayer area and if anyone says boo - scream "BIGOTRY"! all the while ... the tax base for the town will be diminished.

That is the part that gets me. All this argument that they are breaking the zoning laws. While they were trying to circumvent the zoning rules I was loudly critical. But now they ARE following the process - they are appearing before the board. If they lose and go to court that is their right as well.

Just because they are going to the zoning board with a plan that does not conform to the current zoning is in no way bad, wrong or improper. THAT IS WHAT THE ZONING BOARD IS THERE FOR - TO DEAL WITH REQUESTS FOR VARIANCES. They get dozens, if not hundreds of such requests a year. Some they approve, some they deny. For some the story ends there for some it goes to court. But that is the PROCESS. Availing yourself of the right to the process is in no way negative.

If they buy a couple of extra properties and build an as of right property will you drop all your objections? If yes then by all means be part of the process and oppose them before the zoning board. If not then your issues go beyond land use and are not acceptable imo.

I don't have a clue about how these zoning laws work.

However, if the Millburn township council turns down the application and there is an appeal (which from what I've seen on this thread would be very likely to be the case) will Millburn township taxpayers have to pay legal fees to fight any appeals?

you have to admit this is an usual zoning request for a zoning board that sees kitchens, porticos, swing sets and driveway requests all the time from that residential area - and it's unusual also particularly in light of the secrecy and lies ("this is not a shul!") surrounding the birth of the shul on jefferson Avenue on the part of the rabbi. that is wrong and improper in my book.

We have EVERY RIGHT to voice our dissaproval, broigus!

so I've finally hit a thread that has caused me to move from a long time lurker to actually posting...

I feel like I am reading the story of Henny Penny where the sky is falling. Do any of the posters who are so vehemently against having a Chabad schul in THEIR town even know what Chabad does? As someone previously explained (can't recall who), their intent is to bring Jews back to religion. And no - that does not mean "their way or the highway". Unless, the Millburn Bogomilskys operate differently than all other Chabads I have ever been to, the goal of Chabad is to bring more Judiasm into the lives of Jews. Would they love if you became as observant as them, I am sure they would. Is it a requirement, absolutely not!

In fact, the Maplewood Jewish Center (run by the "other Rabbi Bogomilsky) preschool has a good number of non-Jews who send their children bc it is so warm and welcoming. AND the kids come from there very prepared for kindergarten. Shockingly, these parents don't seem to mind that their kids learn about shabbat and other Jewish holidays. In addition, the majority of members or attendees of the services are not orthodox. Personally, my family floats between this schul and a conservative one in the area while we try to find our nitch.

To sum this up - I can understand the concerns over zoning being an issue (whether it will truly be a problem or not is another thing) but all the other things being brought up definitely smell of bigotry to me.

Posted By: miss_l_toeI don't have a clue about how these zoning laws work.

However, if the Millburn township council turns down the application and there is an appeal (which from what I've seen on this thread would be very likely to be the case) will Millburn township taxpayers have to pay legal fees to fight any appeals?

Yes if the matter goes to court, either because the variance was turned down (suit brought by the Chai Center) or because the variance was approved (suit brought by neighbors) the town is a part to the suit and will incur legal expenses. The more levels of appeal higher the costs.

But defending zoning board decisions in court is routine. And is not a reason for a party to not pursue its rights.

Posted By: footballmomyou have to admit this is an usual zoning request for a zoning board that sees kitchens, porticos, swing sets and driveway requests all the time from that residential area - and it's unusual also particularly in light of the secrecy and lies ("this is not a shul!") surrounding the birth of the shul on jefferson Avenue on the part of the rabbi. that is wrong and improper in my book.

We have EVERY RIGHT to voice our dissaproval, broigus!

Obviously most issues relate to residences. But they hear plenty of requests for commercial variances (PetSmart etc). Obviously, despite your hysterical claim, religious institutions are mot looking to expand on a daily basis.

But you ignored my question:

If they buy additional properties (since you claim the neighbors are looking to bail out anyway) and get to 3 acres are you then willing to accept their presence?

If yes, keep it a zoning dispute. If not then I think you are out of bounds.

No, broigus, in my opinion, since they did this under false pretenses, also know as LIES. Liars lose me on their side, sorry! To rule that this private home becomes commercial, you are taking away a neighborhood. That is not for the greater good, nor is it fair. That is my opinion. The size of the lots are what they are. Who says they can combine them, anyway? There should be a law against that. People I know were stopped from doing that when they built onto their homes.

to say that this doesn't happen every day , well that's not a great argument. We would be opening ourselves up to more and more homes being converted to commercial buildings around town: ie, If I start some kind of school or religious organization in my house, then to hell with my neighbors then, and no more taxes for me!

Posted By: shoshannahRabbi Bogomilsky's Chai Center has been around since at least the late '90s -- but at a different location, on Millburn Avenue in the big white house opposite the high school. It hasn't had any noticeable impact on other religious institutions, and I am not sure how many non-Orthodox Jews it has attracted in the 10+ years it's been in town. I know the neighbors on the streets surrounding his Millburn Ave. location were upset about some traffic issues. Has he sold the Millburn Ave. house? Does anyone know why he is moving? What's the background on that?

I called into the town hall today to pay my sewerage taxes and happened to walk past the Millburn Avenue house.

I have no idea if Bogomilsky still lives there or if another of his family or Chai center members live in the house; but that huge menorah on the front lawn is still there. I wonder how he can afford to buy and pay taxes for all of these properties? By the way, there are parking restrictions in the side street (it's almost opposite the Millburn High School and there is very limited parking in this area).

The noticeboard at the Town Hall had the poster up of the (cancelled - due to bad weather) meeting of the variance to turn lots 1 -7 of Jefferson Ave into a religious building; the applicant was named as the 'Chai Center' (I would have thought it was Rabbi Bogomilsky).

Posted By: footballmomto say that this doesn't happen every day , well that's not a great argument. We would be opening ourselves up to more and more homes being converted to commercial buildings around town: ie, If I start some kind of school or religious organization in my house, then to hell with my neighbors then, and no more taxes for me!

I have a book which I bought just before I moved to the USA: "Living and Working in America - A Survival Handbook" by David Hampshire, which I've been dipping into recently.

It contains the quote:

"Enterprising readers should take note that one of the fastest ways to get seriously rich in America is to start a religious organization, which enjoy tax-exempt status"

Hmmmmm

Hmmmmm.

I thought Ron L. Hubbard said that.

Posted By: miss_l_toe"Enterprising readers should take note that one of the fastest ways to get seriously rich in America is to start a religious organization, which enjoy tax-exempt status"

Those of us who are involved with the finances of religious organizations don't really see it that way. The squeeze on my church is in fairly direct proportion to the financial squeeze on our membership, which is considerable recently.

The plans posted on savemillburn.com actually don't look half bad - much nicer imo than the monster mansion/castle on Jefferson that was recently built directly across the street (I wonder how many variances that structure required)! Seems to me that great pains are being taken to try to maintain a residential feel.

http://www.savemillburn.com/proposed-plans

Note on the save millburn site that the opponents have hired one of the high powered real estate lawyers in NJ.
It could be that some of the statements made in this forum will end up being used in the various court matters to come. It might be prudent once again for the participants in this forum to be reminded that you wouldn't want to have some of your words and statements already used here to come back to bite you in the face.
When in doubt consult your lawyer.

Posted By: pdgmuch nicer imo than the monster mansion/castle on Jefferson that was recently built directly across the street

does anyone know what the square footage of that is?

pdg: What are you talking about? monstrosity? variances? The beautiful tile roof mansion "directly across the street" from the shul was built prob in 1910 or the 1920s .... which house?


love the quote ... mis l toe. Wow, Millburn would be losing a lot of tax dollars to this new tax except status. About combining lots and tearing down houses, is that really allowed? If I wanted to by all the houses on my block to create an estate, would I be allowed to combine and demolish homes? And I am still wondering where the historic panel is on this. I know I asked this before, and I guess no one here knows. That panel is all over everyone regarding what windows they use to replace existing windows, so everything retains original charm and character -- as well they should be. They do a nice job. But they will allow the demolition of this house for a new commercial building? The shul is a house that looks like it's from 1910.... and it will be torn down? I don't get it.

Yup, that's the thing I was thinking of, footballmom - if any of the original building remains, it was dwarfed ten-fold by the Mc-addition within the last 5-8 years.

Beauty is in the eye, apparently.

And, about buying houses, consolidating them and making a huge one in Short Hills, that actually was done also in recent memory, by - rumor has it - the person who owns Snapple (or possibly another popular ice-tea company, maybe it was Arizona? I don't really remember). And it has likely happened several other times in Short Hills as well.

You should click on my link to the site above to see the plans I assume were submitted for approval. The "commercial" building you keep referring to will look more like the house that stands at 1 Jeff right now, and will be more in the character of the neighborhood than the castle across the street.

Posted By: pdgYup, that's the thing I was thinking of, footballmom - if any of the original building remains, it was dwarfed ten-fold by the Mc-addition within the last 5-8 years.

Beauty is in the eye, apparently.

And, about buying houses, consolidating them and making a huge one in Short Hills, that actually was done also in recent memory, by - rumor has it - the person who owns Snapple (or possibly another popular ice-tea company, maybe it was Arizona? I don't really remember). And it has likely happened several other times in Short Hills as well.

You should click on my link to the site above to see the plans I assume were submitted for approval. The "commercial" building you keep referring to will look more like the house that stands at 1 Jeff right now, and will be more in the character of the neighborhood than the castle across the street.

The Arizona guy created a compound of two houses on three properties. And fenced it to boot.

Thanks for the correction, broigus.

(Apparently you have been paying closer attention to recent development in Millburn/Short Hills in circumstances that don't involve a religious organization. :wink

Posted By: broigus

Posted By: pdgYup, that's the thing I was thinking of, footballmom - if any of the original building remains, it was dwarfed ten-fold by the Mc-addition within the last 5-8 years.

Beauty is in the eye, apparently.

And, about buying houses, consolidating them and making a huge one in Short Hills, that actually was done also in recent memory, by - rumor has it - the person who owns Snapple (or possibly another popular ice-tea company, maybe it was Arizona? I don't really remember). And it has likely happened several other times in Short Hills as well.

You should click on my link to the site above to see the plans I assume were submitted for approval. The "commercial" building you keep referring to will look more like the house that stands at 1 Jeff right now, and will be more in the character of the neighborhood than the castle across the street.

The Arizona guy created a compound of two houses on three properties. And fenced it to boot.

Then there is the huge house built behind other houses but with a driveway off Old Short Hills Rd. I do not think it has sold yet. I have seen hotels that are smaller.

but I heard that the arizona guy was forbidden from tearing down the 2nd house-the original dwelling on the 2nd lot had to remain in place! You can see it's a modest house there on parsonage hill (very nice, but lesser in comparison to the main house!) but it has the same gates around it. So he was foiled in the end. NOT ALLOWED TO DO AS HE PLEASED. Maybe the staff lives in it? maybe it's empty. Maybe it's rented. None of our business, really. He was allowed to own it, but not annex and tear down. personally, that house and property r so beautiful and it does alot to enhance the town, so it is too bad he was stopped from doing whatever he wished on the second lot, imho.