Mostly a rant about common core, probably no solution.

I originally was going to ask for advice, but I seriously don't know what, if anything, can be done, so I guess this is a rant more than anything else.  I can't exactly ask the school system to change their curriculum.  

September 2017.  My son started public school.  Before entering school he loved learning and had a deep thirst for knowledge.  When he started public school loved it, and he LOVED math, it was his favorite subject.  At night he would look forward to doing homework.  At back to school night we saw how in his notebook he had written "I love math!"  I was worried about what would happen when the newness wore off, but even well into October school and math were something he looked forward to every day.  He was sick one day and was so upset that he had to miss school because he had a fever.  I was so happy that he had that much of a love of learning.

Jump to today, he no longer likes school, and now hates math.  One example, they learned a new concept, borrowing for subtraction.  They spent two days on borrowing, and he said they then moved onto a different concept and left borrowing behind, or at least the type they were trying to teach.  Don't get me wrong, I fully understand that knowing multiple ways of manipulating numbers helps with more understanding of math concepts, but if they can only spend two days working on a new concept because they have to move onto the next one, I fear they may trying to fit too much into a year (thank you, Common Core  tongue wink  )  Yes, borrowing is simple for me, but I'm not at the beginning of my journey of learning math, for someone brand new to this concept two days is not nearly enough.  Math is a subject that you MUST have complete understanding of a concept before you can learn and apply the next concept.  In English you can get by in high school and write essays if you never learn the difference between a verb and an adverb in elementary school.  In history if you slept through the American revolution, you can still learn about the Industrial revolution and have an understanding of how it changed our country.  But math isn't like that, every new skill taught needs to be supported by the previous skill. 

Then there is the homework.  15-20 minutes of reading per night.  I have no issue with that.  Then add on the written work that accompanies the reading.  Then add on the Language Arts homework.  Then add on the math homework.  Close to an hour of homework a night for a kid who should be outside playing and being a kid.

At the most recent parent school night we were shown examples of PARCC questions and answers and what is expected of kids when they get to the third grade.  They're already talking to us about standardized testing that our kids aren't even old enough to take yet.  While many may claim they aren't teaching to the test, that night at the school night told me different.  They were basically saying that even though this test is over a year away, they wanted us to know now what was expected of students so that we could help them at home so that they could be better prepared for it. 

This is exactly what I was afraid of when he started public school, that he would lose his love of learning.  I just don't know what to do.


You can thank Bill Gates, who funded them.  I wish he would stick to computers. Common Core pushed down standards to lower grades.  So kindergarten is now what first or second grade used to be.  My son had a hard time transitioning to elementary school, but had he had Common Core, he'd probably still be in Kindergarten instead of college.  I'd probably still be in Kindergarten too, instead of close to retirement. It is terrible for kids that are not ready for serious, sit at the desk school at 5 years old.  The more precocious and compliant do better, but so many suffer.  

One of the only good things Trump said during his campaign is that he would get rid of Common Core.  But, I knew he would never do that (and probably does not even know what he was saying) because it helps generate profits for corporations.  They don't have to come up with curricula for different state standards anymore. Also,there is a big empahsis on technology so that's more profit.

You can join the fight against it as there are plenty of groups. Trump won't support anything that helps public schools, but Obama and Bush and Clinton were not good for public schools either. They all valued the business community over the schools and teachers (neoliberal policies).  All those teachers making a decent salary --it was ripe for picking.  So, they want to kill the unions, make everyone distrust teachers and then swoop down and take over with "solutions" that transfer money from teachers (who spend it in their communities) to corporations (who stash it in far away islands).

Anyway, I'm rambling on because I'm falling asleep.  I have not been following this topic as close as I used to but it is important.  You should read up on it as much as you can, including outside of mainstream publications because there is tremendous propaganda.  You can start with Diane Ravitch who used to be an establishment hack for standards until she saw the damage that was caused and then she changed sides.  Here is a through piece from a few years ago.  

Everything you need to know about Common Core — Ravitch 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2014/01/18/everything-you-need-to-know-about-common-core-ravitch/?utm_term=.fdc82fed5ced



I wish I could offer you some advice. I'm just glad that my one child is out of the school system now.

I would say just try to help him at home, but with an hour of homework already, that's asking too much of him.

I hate regularly scheduled homework. Such a waste of time.



Spont,

The homework amount seems teacher driven.  I'm at the same school as you, with a 4th grader, and we get barely any homework at all.

Also, they shouldn't get any homework over the weekend. So, you can increase reading time over the weekend, and reduce it during the week, if extra time is needed to do other homework on weekdays.


Yes we are screwing up a generation with the obsession with being "rigorous" by pushing things into lower grades and loading up on homework. It is a full employment act for mental health professionals and pharma.


ska said:

Yes we are screwing up a generation with the obsession with being "rigorous" by pushing things into lower grades and loading up on homework. It is a full employment act for mental health professionals and pharma.

If I'm not mistaken, you are in a district that NJ Monthly ranked as one of the "Top Schools in NJ". This may have further increased the competitive climate and culture in those schools. 



sprout said:

Spont,

The homework amount seems teacher driven.  I'm at the same school as you, with a 4th grader, and we get barely any homework at all.

Also, they shouldn't get any homework over the weekend. So, you can increase reading time over the weekend, and reduce it during the week, if extra time is needed to do other homework on weekdays.

Homework for our class is given out on Monday, due by Friday.  Sometimes it isn't given until Tuesday, so the amount per night to get it done on time increases.  At this point I've decided to just stop with that.  It's crazy.  I spoke with my son and he wants to work at home on subjects he's having issues with, not necessarily with what was assigned.  He is pretty good about knowing when he is competent with something, so I trust him on that.  By 4th or 5th grade it will be a different issue, he'll need to start learning to complete assignments in preparation for middle school when they actually have a real purpose.  

Don't worry, we're not stopping with the reading, I'm totally on board with reading every day.  Though at this point when I sit down with him to read his "just right" books it is actually on top of his own pleasure reading.  He recently got into the Diary of a Wimpy Kid's books, and even though they're way above his grade level, he happily sits down and reads them on his own as best as he can since he thinks they're so funny.


@ska I absolutely agree.  I remember being in the 3rd grade many, many years ago.  We didn't write on the books we read, not even a few sentences.  We made dioramas.  The first time I ever recall having to write about what was read was in the 4th grade.  Admittedly, they are only asked to write a few sentences, but still, it is way more advanced than what was required of my class.  And my son isn't even in the 3rd grade yet.  And FWIW my 3rd grade experience was in the Millburn/Short Hills school system, so it wasn't a substandard education.

And totally off topic, if anyone else who grew up in Millburn recalls Mrs. Natalie Zatzkis from South Mountain School, please tell me you agree that she was one of the best, and nicest, teachers ever.  Over three decades later I still have fond memories of her class. 


sprout said:

Spont,

The homework amount seems teacher driven.  I'm at the same school as you, with a 4th grader, and we get barely any homework at all.

Also, they shouldn't get any homework over the weekend. So, you can increase reading time over the weekend, and reduce it during the week, if extra time is needed to do other homework on weekdays.

And just to follow up on my thought: One of my daughter's teachers indicated at back to school night that she used to give a lot of homework, but that she was encouraged to tone it down a lot. I assume this was a directive from the principal. So, if you feel your child is getting too much homework, you may want to start with that as a point of discussion next week at teacher conferences with the teachers (and that fact that his perspective has changed from liking Math to not liking it). If you don't get a response that makes sense to you, then have a chat with the principal.


Sprout It absolutely did. IMO Milburn is doing itself no favors. Classes are taught well above grade level. In my daughter's grade by the end of middle school over 80 children in that 9th grade class had left the the public school for private schools. In many districts it is the strongest children who are pulled out in search of more challenge. In Millburn it is the children in the middle who have the toughest time and represent the bulk of those pulled out. A girl on our block recently committed suicide. She had been pulled out after 8th grade but had apparently been silently dealing with depression and suicidal urges for two years. My daughter is in an out of district placement due to depreciation and anxiety (here current school has been wonderful so far). But the Millburn pressure really can be ruinous. 


Well, we are having a very different experience.  From your post, it seems your child is in 1st or 2nd grade, possibly at South Mountain?  We went through there and are now in 6th grade at SOMS.  Our approach to the PARCC was to not care too much about it, and we have found that the results exactly match the kid we think we have.  The new principal last year forced a serious cutback on homework which left us concerned that our child would not be prepared for the load in middle school, but so far it has not been too bad.  Our challange was always ELA, not math, but we did a lot of work at home with him,  and this year he is doing very well without any real help from us.  The only real advice I have is to never ***** about the school, homework, classwork, teachers, or PARCC in front of your child.  It is no help for the kid to hear that.  


Seth Boyden, 2nd grade.  I wanted to love the school, and even with this issue I still think the principal is awesome.  But I'm just frustrated that my son's experience is going so badly so quickly.  From loving math to hating it in a little over two months is worrying.  


Part of this is personal.  I was another student who "hated" math even though I was actually quite good at it (we didn't have crazy accelerated curriculum back then, so I was actually able to learn it with no issues).  I also learned to hate school itself early in the 1st grade, and even when I had good teachers in later grades the damage was done.  I am NOT saying that my son has a bad teacher, she seems nice and my son has no complaints about her, but my concern is that a child's earliest experience with schooling can have a profound effect on their entire academic career.


my concern is that a child's earliest experience with schooling can have a profound effect on their entire academic career.

This is my issue exactly!!  I have two elementary school kids who love to learn.  They used to be so excited to go to school.  That excitement is wearing off, and I believe it is due to the pace of the teaching.  We've had math tests come home where several questions were on a type of problem solving that I had not yet seen on their school work or homework.  I asked about it, and was told they covered it the day before the test in school!  So, if somebody didn't quite understand the concept, too bad.


Really, the frenetic pace and the discouragement encountered by those who are falling behind is creating a generation of kids who think school is about trying to keep up, not about discovering and learning and being inspired.  It's sad.


My son does okay at school.  He gets clobbered in hockey.  The lesson in both cases is to keep getting up and trying.  Some things come easier than others.  We put in a lot of extra effort with him in elementary school, and always pointed out the positive stuff.  Class parties, fun subjects, good teachers, etc.  If they hear you complaining about the pace, they will decide that the pace is too much.  The answer to the math test is "oh well, let's get it next time".  


We survived elementary school too. Got through the difficulties. The stuff hit the fan in middle school. As it did for many others in the grade. The pressure just keeps building up until there is no way to work through it. 




nan said:

You can thank Bill Gates, who funded them.  I wish he would stick to computers. Common Core pushed down standards to lower grades.  So kindergarten is now what first or second grade used to be.  My son had a hard time transitioning to elementary school, but had he had Common Core, he'd probably still be in Kindergarten instead of college.  I'd probably still be in Kindergarten too, instead of close to retirement. It is terrible for kids that are not ready for serious, sit at the desk school at 5 years old.  The more precocious and compliant do better, but so many suffer.

Thank you Bill Gates for trying to uplift the US education standards to at least some of the minimal standards enjoyed in other countries.

Even though it is a thankless task.

American educators tell all what a great job they're doing. Many Americans are fooled but you can be certain the folk in other countries are not. They consider us a race to the bottom.

A little nugget here:

The annual Annenberg Constitution Day Civics Survey finds that:
More than half of Americans (53 percent) incorrectly think it is accurate to say that immigrants who are here illegally do not have any rights under the U.S. Constitution;
More than a third of those surveyed (37 percent) can’t name any of the rights guaranteed under the First Amendment;
Only a quarter of Americans (26 percent) can name all three branches of government.

https://www.annenbergpublicpolicycenter.org/americans-are-poorly-informed-about-basic-constitutional-provisions

Should we be thanking American educators for the great job they've done? Not really. Of course, they'll never accept responsibility.

Wonder why Trump gets elected? Maybe it has to do with the lack of an "intelligently" educated public. Only 1/4 know of the three branches of government. Any wonder why so many don't know of or understand the balance of powers between the branches? I suspect many think Trump is the only and supreme head of government who think he's a nice guy because he didn't fire the Federal judges that disagreed with him.



RichardR said:We've had math tests come home where several questions were on a type of problem solving that I had not yet seen on their school work or homework.  I asked about it, and was told they covered it the day before the test in school!  So, if somebody didn't quite understand the concept, too bad.

This not only sets the child up to fail, it also sets the child up to believe that they aren't good at the subject. 


I understand wanting common curriculum standards.  Back in the 80's a friend moved here from a rural Tennessee town.  At his old school he had a B average.  When he came to SOMSD they tested him, and he was a full two grades behind in math and reading.  But SOMSD and Millburn weren't horrible backwater school systems, even back then these towns had desirable schools.  To have accelerated the curriculum so much to meet the new "standards" implies that they weren't good enough before.  


ETA:  Couldn't there have been some middle ground between leaving the standards untouched and the current extensive push for children to learn too much too early?


Leaving aside the national situation, which I agree may be going too far in the early years...

Pls be sure your kid's teacher knows how much time he is spending on homework.  The teacher can't know if parents don't say, and the amount may have crept up over time.  The teacher may even say "don't spend more than xx per day."

In any case, imo:  (1) unless the child is walking home from school, homework comes right after a good run in the park or yard and a snack and (2) if the homework is taking too long some night, or interferes with an important family event, or is inscrutable to both the child and you, write the teacher a note about it, and let it go.  An occasional miss at this age shouldn't matter.

Hope things get better soon!  The kid may surprise you.


No one elected Bill Gates to radically transform our public school system into a corporate mold.  Demandig that kindergarten children be able to read and write to pass is setting them up for failure, not success. Attacks on the public school have a long history, and can usually be traced back to those who profit from a negative view.  The reason our system gets low marks, by the way, is because we have the largest child poverty in the developed world.  Poverty has a high correlation with poor school performance.  As the late Gerald Bracey used to say, "Poverty is like gravity," it affects everything you do.   When controled for poverty, we have some of the best schools in the world, although the better school systems, such as Finland, treat their teachers with great respect, don't have kids start learning to read until about age 7 and don't use too many tests.  

BG9 said:






nan said:

You can thank Bill Gates, who funded them.  I wish he would stick to computers. Common Core pushed down standards to lower grades.  So kindergarten is now what first or second grade used to be.  My son had a hard time transitioning to elementary school, but had he had Common Core, he'd probably still be in Kindergarten instead of college.  I'd probably still be in Kindergarten too, instead of close to retirement. It is terrible for kids that are not ready for serious, sit at the desk school at 5 years old.  The more precocious and compliant do better, but so many suffer.

Thank you Bill Gates for trying to uplift the US education standards to at least some of the minimal standards enjoyed in other countries.

Even though it is a thankless task.

American educators tell all what a great job they're doing. Many Americans are fooled but you can be certain the folk in other countries are not. They consider us a race to the bottom.

A little nugget here:


The annual Annenberg Constitution Day Civics Survey finds that:
More than half of Americans (53 percent) incorrectly think it is accurate to say that immigrants who are here illegally do not have any rights under the U.S. Constitution;
More than a third of those surveyed (37 percent) can’t name any of the rights guaranteed under the First Amendment;
Only a quarter of Americans (26 percent) can name all three branches of government.

https://www.annenbergpublicpolicycenter.org/americans-are-poorly-informed-about-basic-constitutional-provisions


Should we be thanking American educators for the great job they've done? Not really. Of course, they'll never accept responsibility.

Wonder why Trump gets elected? Maybe it has to do with the lack of an "intelligently" educated public. Only 1/4 know of the three branches of government. Any wonder why so many don't know of or understand the balance of powers between the branches? I suspect many think Trump is the only and supreme head of government who think he's a nice guy because he didn't fire the Federal judges that disagreed with him.




The problem with a) letting the teacher know that the kid is spending X hours on homework, or b) not doing excessive homework or not doing homework that interferes with family events is that the child (at least my child) INSISTS that he must do it and would not feel comfortable or good about himself going into school without everything done. Neither of my children have ever wanted me to run interference. They'd rather "buckle down" or miss the family event than to show up at school with less than the full homework done.


Again based on my recent experience, regardless of accommodations, discussions or anything else at the end if homework is not done on time, completely and to the rubric the student is nailed and suffers. There Is no such thing as differentiation in practice. 


When I began teaching, we were told that the state B.o.E. required x number of hours of instruction. Classroom instruction took up (X - ) and the difference had to be made up with about 4 hours of homework per week.

I wonder if this is still the rationale.




....  But SOMSD and Millburn weren't horrible backwater school systems, even back then these towns had desirable schools.  To have accelerated the curriculum so much to meet the new "standards" implies that they weren't good enough before.  ....

I was graduated from Millburn H.S., class of '60. Our class produced a Nobel Laureate, several physicians, and so forth. We did this without the benefit of Core Curriculum.

(yeah, they also had me as a class member but you can't win 'em all)


Thank you Nan.  As an educator, both of your posts are spot on! 

BG9 your post is incredibly misinformed and offensive.  I'd also add as a  Social Studies teacher that Common Core has placed very little importance or emphasis on history and government. On the one hand, at least my subject area isn't at the mercy of having to teach to the test. However, it is telling because many people feel learning history is useless and just requires some memorization, when in fact a good history course emphasizes building critical thinking skills.  

nan said:

No one elected Bill Gates to radically transform our public school system into a corporate mold.  Demandig that kindergarten children be able to read and write to pass is setting them up for failure, not sucess. Attacks on the publich school have a long history, and can usually be traced back to those who profit from a negative view.  The reason our system gets low marks, by the way, is because we have the largest child poverty in the developed world.  Poverty has a high correlation with poor school performance.  As the late Gerald Bracey used to say, "Poverty is like gravity," it affects everything you do.   When controled for poverty, we have some of the best schools in the world, although the better school systems, such as Finland, treat their teachers with great respect, don't have kids start learning to read until about age 7 and don't use too many tests.  
BG9 said:






nan said:

You can thank Bill Gates, who funded them.  I wish he would stick to computers. Common Core pushed down standards to lower grades.  So kindergarten is now what first or second grade used to be.  My son had a hard time transitioning to elementary school, but had he had Common Core, he'd probably still be in Kindergarten instead of college.  I'd probably still be in Kindergarten too, instead of close to retirement. It is terrible for kids that are not ready for serious, sit at the desk school at 5 years old.  The more precocious and compliant do better, but so many suffer.

Thank you Bill Gates for trying to uplift the US education standards to at least some of the minimal standards enjoyed in other countries.

Even though it is a thankless task.

American educators tell all what a great job they're doing. Many Americans are fooled but you can be certain the folk in other countries are not. They consider us a race to the bottom.

A little nugget here:


The annual Annenberg Constitution Day Civics Survey finds that:
More than half of Americans (53 percent) incorrectly think it is accurate to say that immigrants who are here illegally do not have any rights under the U.S. Constitution;
More than a third of those surveyed (37 percent) can’t name any of the rights guaranteed under the First Amendment;
Only a quarter of Americans (26 percent) can name all three branches of government.

https://www.annenbergpublicpolicycenter.org/americans-are-poorly-informed-about-basic-constitutional-provisions


Should we be thanking American educators for the great job they've done? Not really. Of course, they'll never accept responsibility.

Wonder why Trump gets elected? Maybe it has to do with the lack of an "intelligently" educated public. Only 1/4 know of the three branches of government. Any wonder why so many don't know of or understand the balance of powers between the branches? I suspect many think Trump is the only and supreme head of government who think he's a nice guy because he didn't fire the Federal judges that disagreed with him.





Perseverance said:

 it is telling because many people feel learning history is useless and just requires some memorization, when in fact a good history course emphasizes building critical thinking skills.  

It is unfortunate that the N.J. Dept. of Ed. reduced the amount of time to teach the American Revolution, Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. These topics have been eliminated from high school studies. It is from the study of these subjects that we get an understanding of the First, Second, Fourth, Fifth and Sixth Amendments.

As for critical thinking, The Koch brothers think we don't need none of that.



Formerlyjerseyjack said:



Perseverance said:

 it is telling because many people feel learning history is useless and just requires some memorization, when in fact a good history course emphasizes building critical thinking skills.  

It is unfortunate that the N.J. Dept. of Ed. reduced the amount of time to teach the American Revolution, Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. These topics have been eliminated from high school studies. It is from the study of these subjects that we get an understanding of the First, Second, Fourth, Fifth and Sixth Amendments.

As for critical thinking, The Koch brothers think we don't need none of that.

I'm trying to figure out why there isn't time to cover these topics when, unlike most states, New Jersey has TWO years of US History in the high school curriculum. (I also question whether that is really the case.)


That's definitely not true. In my district, freshman take US History 1 and I can assure you that those topics are covered in depth.  The amendments are generally covered in US History 2 their sophomore year because you can use Supreme Court cases to help illustrate those amendments.  However, if students are really interested in the Constitution and want to study it in depth, they would be wise to take AP Government & Politics. 

Technically, a student only needs 3 years of social studies courses to graduate.  Any student who wants to be considered seriously for college would take a course their senior year.  However, I still think the fact that one only needs 3 years versus Math or English which require 4 years speaks volumes as to how little the Dept. of Ed values social studies. 

sac said:



Formerlyjerseyjack said:



Perseverance said:

 it is telling because many people feel learning history is useless and just requires some memorization, when in fact a good history course emphasizes building critical thinking skills.  

It is unfortunate that the N.J. Dept. of Ed. reduced the amount of time to teach the American Revolution, Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. These topics have been eliminated from high school studies. It is from the study of these subjects that we get an understanding of the First, Second, Fourth, Fifth and Sixth Amendments.

As for critical thinking, The Koch brothers think we don't need none of that.

I'm trying to figure out why there isn't time to cover these topics when, unlike most states, New Jersey has TWO years of US History in the high school curriculum. (I also question whether that is really the case.)



They are too busy teaching how awful the European settlers were to teach anything positive about the Constitution or any thing else related to America. 


Rather than enjoy the spirit of gratitude on this Thanksgiving Day, I guess the trolls have come out and decided it's "**** on Teachers Day" instead.  Happy Thanksgiving to you!

unicorn_and_rainbows said:

They are too busy teaching how awful the European settlers were to teach anything positive about the Constitution or any thing else related to America. 




Perseverance said:

Rather than enjoy the spirit of gratitude on this Thanksgiving Day, I guess the trolls have come out and decided it's "**** on Teachers Day" instead.  Happy Thanksgiving to you!
unicorn_and_rainbows said:

They are too busy teaching how awful the European settlers were to teach anything positive about the Constitution or any thing else related to America. 

I didn't see anyone shitting on teachers here (and as a matter of fact there was a teacher or two involved above) ...


You didn't find what unicorns and rainbows said to be the least bit offensive to teachers??  

ETA:  My comment was based solely on what unicorns and rainbows said.  Otherwise, I think everyone has been absolutely respectful on this thread.  

Scully said:



Perseverance said:

Rather than enjoy the spirit of gratitude on this Thanksgiving Day, I guess the trolls have come out and decided it's "**** on Teachers Day" instead.  Happy Thanksgiving to you!
unicorn_and_rainbows said:

They are too busy teaching how awful the European settlers were to teach anything positive about the Constitution or any thing else related to America. 

I didn't see anyone shitting on teachers here (and as a matter of fact there was a teacher or two involved above) ...



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