Meet the Mets (For Mets Fans Only!)

DaveSchmidt said:
Cole Hamels at 30 was no Jacob DeGrom, 

 But isn't that the most relevant point?


it's infuriating that the Mets can't score a single %@%&! run when deGrom is pitching 


ml1 said:


Dennis_Seelbach said:

ml1 said:
give us Torres, Hicks and a prospect and maybe it starts to make sense. 
 NO!
 that's why it's not happening. Yankees don't want to pay full value. 
The trio you proposed actually leaves the Mets worse off for the future. Frazier would be 4th OF on their depth chart. Drury is only marginally better than the likes of Wilmer Flores, and German is am enormous step down from deGrom. 
You can't get something for nothing. A trade has to work for both teams. 

 So, Hicks, a couple of prospects, and who? You don't get Torres.


that's why it's not happening. The Mets would have to be nuts to give up one of the 5 best pitchers in MLB for less than that. 


by the way, as of tonight deGrom has given up 0 or 1 run in 58 of 126 career starts. If he pitched for the Yankees this year he'd probably have 15 wins by now. 


ml1 said:


DaveSchmidt said:
Cole Hamels at 30 was no Jacob DeGrom, 
 But isn't that the most relevant point?

Yes, but it’s a point I’m too polite to debate as a guest in a Mets thread.


I've been watching Mets games since Seaver was in his prime. deGrom is as good as any Mets pitcher I've ever seen. He's not as overpowering as Seaver or Gooden were. But he's every bit as good a pitcher as they were. 


DaveSchmidt said:


ml1 said:

DaveSchmidt said:
Cole Hamels at 30 was no Jacob DeGrom, 
 But isn't that the most relevant point?
Yes, but it’s a point I’m too polite to debate as a guest in a Mets thread.

 he was really, really good the year he turned 30. Too bad for the Phils that they waited until he was 31 to trade him. 

Which I suppose is going to be the argument for trading deGrom this year. But not for the Yanks' three stooges. 


FWIW, these were the untouchable, can’t-miss prospects for the Red Sox and the Rangers when the Phils were shopping Hamels: Blake Swihart and Jurickson Profar.


DaveSchmidt said:
FWIW, these were the untouchable, can’t-miss prospects for the Red Sox and the Rangers when the Phils were shopping Hamels: Blake Swihart and Jurickson Profar.

 to be fair, none of them was a Wuilmer Becerra


The list of can't miss prospects who missed is far longer than the list of those who made it big.  It is pretty hard to predict who is going to mature into a great player, or even a regular everyday player, and injuries complicate it even more.

That said, you either need prospects (to play and to trade) or you need to open up the wallet to (over)pay for FAs.  A boatload of prospects along with a few young good players is what the Mets need, however they go about it.  Going the FA route has not worked out very well for the Wilpons, and frankly it is not working out for many of the other teams as well.   


mfpark said:
The list of can't miss prospects who missed is far longer than the list of those who made it big.  It is pretty hard to predict who is going to mature into a great player, or even a regular everyday player, and injuries complicate it even more.
That said, you either need prospects (to play and to trade) or you need to open up the wallet to (over)pay for FAs.  A boatload of prospects along with a few young good players is what the Mets need, however they go about it.  Going the FA route has not worked out very well for the Wilpons, and frankly it is not working out for many of the other teams as well.   

 this is why the Mets should only trade a guy the caliber of deGrom for a guy the caliber of Torres plus prospects.  At this point, Torres is no longer a prospect and has shown he can excel at the big league level.  But he's young and under team control for a long time.

If the Mets can't get a guy who is already a good MLB player plus a couple of prospects, they should just hold on to deGrom.  

Let's all remember that the Yanks got Torres and three other guys for a half year rental of Aroldis Chapman.  Sure he was only a prospect at the time, but he was the Cubs' #1 prospect and only 2 years away from the big leagues.  And two years of deGrom is worth a hell of a lot more than 3 months of Chapman.

This is why every report of the Mets and potentially trading deGrom includes the word "overwhelming."  Only an overwhelming offer should be considered.  Anything else is not full value.


I can't believe Cabrera has 17 homers. He's good as gone. 


I can’t believe Syndergaard has as many wins as deGrom this 


Keep Wheeler or trade him? He's really in a groove right now. I fear the Mets won't get much for Wheeler despite his recent success. And naturally, Harvey is pitching lights-out the last few weeks. 


Keep the starters.  All of them.  Sell Cabrera and the closer.  Give away most of the other hitters.


Well, we knew at some point, deGrom himself or through his agent would push for some kind of action. I don't blame him. So what do you do? Keep him or trade him? What's he worth?


WOW. This thread is closing in on 5,500 posts! That's pretty damn good... Wondering where it puts us in the MOL all-time most popular thread rankings.


He is the only player on the roster that I actually would give a long term deal to.  


Soul_29 said:
WOW. This thread is closing in on 5,500 posts! That's pretty damn good... Wondering where it puts us in the MOL all-time most popular thread rankings.

 Because we care.


This is comment No. 5,479.

The career slugging percentage of Mr. Ralph Kiner: .5479.


Soul_29 said:
WOW. This thread is closing in on 5,500 posts! That's pretty damn good... Wondering where it puts us in the MOL all-time most popular thread rankings.

And not for nuthin’, but it’d be a lot closer to 5,400 still if the Commish and the other fans here weren’t so tolerant of intruders from the other end of the turnpike.


basically anyone is welcome here except Yankees fans, who for some reason just can't keep themselves from taunting. Or proposing ridiculously one-sided trades.


DaveSchmidt said:


Soul_29 said:
WOW. This thread is closing in on 5,500 posts! That's pretty damn good... Wondering where it puts us in the MOL all-time most popular thread rankings.
And not for nuthin’, but it’d be a lot closer to 5,400 still if the Commish and the other fans here weren’t so tolerant of intruders from the other end of the turnpike.

True. But then we'd be back near 5,500 -- perhaps well beyond even -- if I wasn't suspended so dang often.


ml1 said:
basically anyone is welcome here except Yankees fans, who for some reason just can't keep themselves from taunting. Or proposing ridiculously one-sided trades.

 


Yes, Machado is a totally different situation that deGrom--he is an unrestricted Free Agent after this season.  So the Orioles trading him for a handful of prospects.  Yusniel Diaz from Cuba looks like he might be the real deal, and the pitchers included are young but doing well in the middle minors.

But, damn, the Mets need to do something to start restocking the club.  The Dodgers traded their top prospect, Diaz, but they still have three more really highly rated prospects that they did not have to touch.  And if they lose Machado after this pennant-run rental, they have Seager coming back off the DL at SS next year anyway.

For the Mets it is a real conundrum.  The other night I heard Wally Backman (ahem) claim that deGrom is like Seaver in his prime.  He said keep Thor and Matz, too.  Yet he had no answers as to how to restock the rest of the team.  Having three pitchers who go 8-11 with a 2.50 ERA and 200 Ks each is not a winning recipe.


mfpark said:
Yes, Machado is a totally different situation that deGrom--he is an unrestricted Free Agent after this season.  So the Orioles trading him for a handful of prospects.  Yusniel Diaz from Cuba looks like he might be the real deal, and the pitchers included are young but doing well in the middle minors.

But, damn, the Mets need to do something to start restocking the club.  The Dodgers traded their top prospect, Diaz, but they still have three more really highly rated prospects that they did not have to touch.  And if they lose Machado after this pennant-run rental, they have Seager coming back off the DL at SS next year anyway.

For the Mets it is a real conundrum.  The other night I heard Wally Backman (ahem) claim that deGrom is like Seaver in his prime.  He said keep Thor and Matz, too.  Yet he had no answers as to how to restock the rest of the team.  Having three pitchers who go 8-11 with a 2.50 ERA and 200 Ks each is not a winning recipe.

deGrom is really the only guy I'd consider nearly untouchable.  No one is untradeable, depending on the deal that's being offered.  But the chances that any group of prospects will bring back full value on deGrom is doubtful.  If the team isn't better by trading him, why do it?  

I hate to say it, but the best move for the Mets is probably to stand pat this year.  If they are bad again next year, then clean house at the deadline.  If Matz and Wheeler finish this year the way they've started it, and start off strong next year, they'll both have a lot more value than they do right now.  Trade away deGrom next year, and unless he drops off tremendously, he'll still be almost as valuable as he is now, with a season and a half left under contract.  Then build around Syndergaard, who's younger.  I don't see how trading one guy like deGrom this year really does enough to start a rebuild.  And the other pitchers won't bring back much until they've really proven they are healthy, and ready to be consistent performers.



mfpark said:

The Dodgers traded their top prospect, Diaz, but they still have three more really highly rated prospects that they did not have to touch.

So Diaz was “a” top Dodgers prospect, as you note in the second part of the sentence, not “their top prospect.” I reinforce the point only in the context of the earlier discussion about the willingness of teams to part with their Guerreros, Tatises, Bichettes — and Swiharts.


DaveSchmidt said:


mfpark said:

The Dodgers traded their top prospect, Diaz, but they still have three more really highly rated prospects that they did not have to touch.
So Diaz was “a” top Dodgers prospect, as you note in the second part of the sentence, not “their top prospect.” I reinforce the point only in the context of the earlier discussion about the willingness of teams to part with their Guerreros, Tatises, Bichettes — and Swiharts.

 Fine, but what do the Mets do to improve?  Standing pat?  Ugh!


Small trades.  Cabrera for a prospect.  Familia has some value.    I'm for keeping all of the starters, Gsellman and Lugo, and Nimmo and Conforto.  That's it.  Of course, there is no market for anyone who is left.  Cespedes is turning into an anchor, Bruce, Reyes, and Bautista aren't worth a bag of balls.  


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