Madhu Pai on achievement gap and data analysis
In truth, Maplewood-South Orange are likely to be the test cases for other districts in New Jersey that are going to have to achieve true academic integration, not just apparent integration.
galileo said:
What happened to the "access and equity" policy?
If I read the article correctly, the structure of inequity was too entrenched for positive changes to occur, but that's for current involved residents and closer observers than I to discuss.
peaceinourtime said:
http://www.nj.com/essex/index.ssf/2017/11/south_orange_maplewood_racial_achievement_gap.html#incart_river_mobile_home_pop
In truth, Maplewood-South Orange are likely to be the test cases for other districts in New Jersey that are going to have to achieve true academic integration, not just apparent integration.
This district has jumped the shark.
From the article the complaint is that:
"The results showed a continued racial divide — in ninth grade language arts, about 90 percent of white students are in honors, compared to less than 50 percent of black students. In biology, 36 percent of black students are in honors, compared to 89 percent of white students.
A "continued racial divide" that is reflective of the one that is nationwide. And not at all specific to our district.
All Columbia 9th grade students came from UN-LEVELED 8th grade Science and LA courses within our district (SOMS & MMS), or transferred into the district. Most likely those coming from one of the MAPSO middles schools would have been placed based on their performance in 8th grade Science or LA. All of their previous years courses would have been UN-LEVELED and heterogeneously grouped.
The "Access and Equity" program would also allow anyone to change their level assignment for 9th grade if they felt it didn't reflect their past performance, their capability, or if they wanted to take on additional challenge.
Students transferring into the district would be assigned a level placement based on how well their previous coursework (and grades) would prepare them for the upcoming 9th grade curriculum(s). Let's keep in mind that students transferring into this district may or may not be as well prepared as students who have been in the district since elementary school.
galileo said:
What happened to the "access and equity" policy?
While the access and equity policy removed barriers that prevented students from taking certain classes, there's no way to ensure that the results will address the overall problem of imbalanced classes. In fact, it could make it worse.
Let's say that under rigid tracking, the honors-level class had a 20/10 ratio between Whites and Students of Color, and the class one level down was 20/10 the other way. When the E&A policy was instituted, there was nothing to ensure that students who chose to move up would do so in a way that improves the ratio at either level.
In fact, there might be more social pressure on the White students to move up to the higher level, making the ratio ever starker in both classes. That's not to say that E&A is wrong, but much more work needs to go into studying why decisions are made and involving parents more.
Also, the A&E policy does nothing for whatever is happening (or not happening) in the elementary grades to lead minority students to be less prepared to succeed in higher level courses in high school. I'm not sure what the answer is there, but I think that is where the achievement gap starts and it won't be solved at the high school level.
Stoughton said:
In fact, there might be more social pressure on the White students to move up to the higher level, making the ratio ever starker in both classes.
What signs of a racial difference in social pressure have you seen in the district? I don’t know what it’s like inside SOMSD classrooms, but on the outside the push for education feels pretty strong all around.
DaveSchmidt said:
Stoughton said:
In fact, there might be more social pressure on the White students to move up to the higher level, making the ratio ever starker in both classes.
What signs of a racial difference in social pressure have you seen in the district? I don’t know what it’s like inside SOMSD classrooms, but on the outside the push for education feels pretty strong all around.
My language was unclear. I was referring to the fact that if a White student had more friends/neighbors in a the higher-level class, they or their family might be more inclined to move up to that class.
For those of us who have opposed deleveling from the get go, this change in direction is disquieting.
sac said:
Also, the A&E policy does nothing for whatever is happening (or not happening) in the elementary grades to lead minority students to be less prepared to succeed in higher level courses in high school. I'm not sure what the answer is there, but I think that is where the achievement gap starts and it won't be solved at the high school level.
Exactly my point. After an un-leveled and heterogeneously grouped K-8 education in our schools (plus transfer students) we find that there is a persistent achievement gap. The majority of the BOE's reaction is shock and horror; Ms. Maini: it's structural rascism, Ms. Lawson-Muhammad; we've got to address the (non-existent) "hyper leveling" in our district, and Mr. Fields is advocating de-leveling the high school to one level and AP, under threat of lawsuit.
Genius! 9 years of de-leveled & heterogeneously grouped classes ended with an achievement gap. What will fix it? More de-leveling!
What is that saying about continuing to do the same thing and expecting different results?
The definition of insanity is living the last six years under the delusion that there was leveling in the middle school when you moved here with a seventh grader and now learning that classes were deleveled and heterogeneously grouped nine years ago.
DaveSchmidt said:
The definition of insanity is living the last six years under the delusion that there was leveling in the middle school when you moved here with a seventh grader and now learning that classes were deleveled and heterogeneously grouped nine years ago.
I think you misunderstood, I didn't say that middle school classes were de-leveled nine years ago.
I said that the cohort of last years 9th graders had only experienced non-leveled LA or Science classes in the 9 years prior to their freshman year @ Columbia high school.
Yes, I misunderstood. I didn’t realize that leveling starting in kindergarten was anyone’s comparison point.
This would be another way to look at it (assuming the policy began four years ago, which I didn’t double-check): In fifth grade, their schools had zero years of experience in grouping and teaching classes this way. When they were in sixth grade, the schools had one year of experience. Etc. By the time they reached CHS, the students had spent four years in classes taught with an average of roughly one and a half years of experience doing it that way.
Assuming we agree that this isn’t something that can be fixed overnight, and that a larger body of progressive results would better inform opinions as to how the district is doing in its attempt to narrow the gap, one would logically question the need and/or efficacy of any lawsuit borne out of a desire to force the district’s hand prematurely.
So what is she doing about it as a member of the BOE? Op-eds are nice but they don't get anything done.
Rivoli said:
I thought Madhu Pai's op-ed in the Village Green brought up some really interesting points about the need for better, smarter analysis of data around student performance. She says we could be using our existing data to better understand the performance of black, white and special needs students.
https://villagegreennj.com/schools-kids/op-ed-re-imagining-data-somsd-not-just-different/
Any thoughts about the validity and viability of her proposals?
if students and their families are able
To decide to take an advanced class based on their preference
and not on historical performance then what happens is that the teacher must teach to
The lowest common denominator and it will cease to be an advanced class. The achievement gap
Starts in preschool. It has more
To do with early exposure and early practices at home
More than anything
Else. I am
Tired of the schools
Being blamed
For
Every social ailment. Yes we live
In a racist society and no it is not fair and yes these students need extra help. So become a tutor. Please. With all the talent this town has if everyone became
A tutor
For one hour a week I bet that the achievement gap could be narrowed in a meaningful way. To expect a teacher to teach to so many different levels is not
Fair nor is it realistic. Stop
Blaming the schools. No one wants
To talk about how family habits and family circumstances
Are
Mostly responsible
For the gap. My daughter has black
Friends who
Are high achievers because
They come
From high achieving well-educated successful families who focus on their children’s education because
They were taught
To
Do that and because they are able
To do this. Let’s stop beating around the bush. No one wants to talk about the real issues which are
Mainly wxonom
Don't know if it's been posted elsewhere, but here is a response to Madhu Pai's letter from demanding that Ms. Pai apologize to the community "for insinuating that (a) the achievement gap is in any way acceptable and (b) that the gap is in any way attributable to the students or their families."
For the record, the letter reflects the views of the eight signers, who are members of the group, but was not from, or written on behalf of, the group itself. (I was told that some other members, for example, went on Facebook to express their disagreement.)
Then they shouldn't start the letter with "We are members of PARES....."
DaveSchmidt said:
For the record, the letter reflects the views of the eight signers, who are members of the group, but was not from, or written on behalf of, the group itself. (I was told that some other members, for example, went on Facebook to express their disagreement.)
actually education starts at birth. Practices in the home, vocabulary used, radio stations , family discussions, reading to babies, avoiding tv. All important for early brain development as far as I have read anyway.
“It starts in the home” rhetoric is a dog whistle for classism and racism.
Walter Fields is so concerned about Black students having access to higher levels, but he has done nothing to promote the AP information session tonight at CHS to all of his social media followers. It’s much easier to file lawsuits, I presume.
peaceinourtime said:
annielou said:For sure.
“It starts in the home” rhetoric is a dog whistle for classism and racism.
It seems to me that discussions like these boil down to two basic visions of what public education’s primary purpose is supposed to be. Is it to maximize achievement? Or is it to lay a foundation? (Ideally both, of course, but strained resources tend to put them into conflict.) The former makes it easy to point to home life as an excuse. The latter acknowledges home life as either a challenge or a leg up, but not as an argument.
Annielou are you saying that economics (classism) does not play a role in this equation of the achievement gap? The question is ask is why there is such a divide economically and what does this divide produce? One can look at the research and say why is this happening (the achievement gap). The thought here in this district is that the problem is the racist school system. But if the racist school district has not really kicked in its racist practices until middle school, why is there a glaring achievement gap in third grade? When it appears before school has even begun, the hard question is what do you attribute it to? The blame does not have to go to people, but to society, to structured racism and how it affects all aspects of a person's life. And yes, this structured racism puts people at a deficit. I really think that Nancy Solomon's Mind the Gap looked at the complexity of this issue. A racist district is an easy fix, but this problem is no easy fix, and it is delusional to think so.
Too many policy makers and educators (unfortunately) like to harp on home life “deficits”. That way when kids fail they can circle back around to that theme. We have children in school for seven hours a day and what we do within that time period matters and can make a difference.
I’ve seen too many success stories emerge from all manner of circumstances. Equally, I’ve seen catastrophe in some privileged homes.
You've made this argument before in other threads. Again, your argument is overly simplistic and flawed. I teach in a very affluent district which is overwhelmingly white. These students are exposed to all sorts of opportunities and learning experiences from an early age. If they are struggling, they can afford tutors. If their child has an IEP and it's not being followed in the way the parent would like, they can hire an attorney and threaten to sue the district. If their child is disciplined in a way they don't like, again, they can threaten to sue the school district. With the exception of AP tests, we do not spend time "teaching to the test." It is assumed our students will do well on tests like PARRC. Do you see where I'm going from here? My students have so many opportunities that are not available to those who are low income. Those who are low income maybe working 2 or 3 jobs to get by and can't be on top of their child's education. As funding decreases for schools, the number of students per classroom increases per teacher. This is a detriment because teachers can't give the individualized attention they would like to each student.
Are there students who "fail" in my district? Yes. Some are going through incredibly heartbreaking issues that are far beyond what I can do as an individual teacher. We can strongly suggest the parent(s) take their child to therapy but there is only so much the school can do. Sometimes parents choose not to follow the teacher/school's suggestions. Other students simply aren't interested in school and choose not to do work no matter how much I or the parents want them to succeed. I can help them but I cannot do the work for them.
Teaching is my second career and I have never worked harder in any other job. It is incredibly complex. I am saying this as a teacher in one of the most highly regarded districts in the state. I can't imagine what my colleagues go through in lower income districts where you have systemic racism and poverty. Are there crappy teachers? Of course. You'll find that in any industry. But please don't generalize.
annielou said:
Too many policy makers and educators (unfortunately) like to harp on home life “deficits”. That way when kids fail they can circle back around to that theme. We have children in school for seven hours a day and what we do within that time period matters and can make a difference.
I’ve seen too many success stories emerge from all manner of circumstances. Equally, I’ve seen catastrophe in some privileged homes.
Sponsored Business
Promote your business here - Businesses get highlighted throughout the site and you can add a deal.
Rentals
-
Huge Brand New construction Apartment in 2 family home with 4 bedrooms 3 bathrooms
4 Bd | 3Full Ba
$4,500
I thought Madhu Pai's op-ed in the Village Green brought up some really interesting points about the need for better, smarter analysis of data around student performance. She says we could be using our existing data to better understand the performance of black, white and special needs students.
https://villagegreennj.com/schools-kids/op-ed-re-imagining-data-somsd-not-just-different/
Any thoughts about the validity and viability of her proposals?