Dec 13 Johns Hopkins CTY Gifted & Talented Presentation; 7th grade testing in January
It's a money making program for Hopkins. Nothing more. Parents are led to believe it is something more.
Never took part in it ourselves as a family, but can’t a program be worthwhile and make money at the same time?
I took part in their SAT-test part of the program about 30 years ago. My parents held a similar view of it as @yahooyahoo , and I did not attend any of their expensive programs. (Also, I wasn't at all interested in going to 'Math Camp' as an early teen).
However, I did find that taking the SATs in 7th grade helped me feel less stressed about them when I took them 'for real' later in High School. It was helpful to already feel familiar with the process.
Yes, it's possible to be worthwhile and make money. However, Hopkins promotes the program as if it's an exclusive club that your child has been chosen to join. The programs and camps are well done but they are expensive and will not get your kid into Hopkins.
DaveSchmidt said:
Never took part in it ourselves as a family, but can’t a program be worthwhile and make money at the same time?
Both my children participated and the programs were excellent. (agreed not inexpensive).We only did some one day, and some two day offerings. Yes, it is a program designed so Hopkins can draw data for it own purposes. But it does so while trying to offer a balance of opportunities to the selected students. The early offering of the SAT was a real bonus for my test anxious child. My child was labeled with a learning disability in one area and G&T in the other so it really helped boost that child's self esteem and help illustrate for that child that disability does no define you.
My cousin's son who was in a school district that does not participate in the Hopkins program, took some online advanced courses the program offers. I am not sure what alternate testing they submitted to qualify but he enjoyed the courses and his father was delighted to get him access to some online advanced courses not otherwise available in his school district.
My daughter applied and was accepted into the program and attended for 3 years. It was one of the most defining things she did during her teenage years. She absolutely loved the program!! She was challenged academically through the program (6 hours of class time a day as I recall with tiny class sizes) and she discovered a world of people who truly shared her love of knowledge, learning, and inclusion. She met and studied with people from across the globe and country - many of whom she is still close with. It gave her an early experience to college life (she attended the CTY program at Franklin & Marshall's campus). After returning from her first year, she could not stop talking about it for a full year and she practically counted the days until she got to return. It was/is expensive and we did not have bags of money sitting around waiting to be spent. However, the program was SO impactful for her that after splurging that first year there was no way we were not going to find the money each year so she could attend again. It may not be for everyone but it was a truly exceptional experience for our daughter. Last year she, in her words, "paid it back" and she was hired to be a counselor at another CTY program at Dickinson. If anyone wants to PM me to discuss I would be happy to answer questions or provide more details.
CTY changed my son's life. It gave him confidence academically and socially that he had not been able to find elsewhere. He spent three summers at the Dickinson location as a student/camper and two more as an RA/counselor. As an added bonus, he wrote his college application essay about his experience there and got into every school to which he applied. Like luigi's daughter, he was engaged by both the academics and the powerful sense of inclusion and acceptance, and made it his mission as an RA to replicate/perpetuate that experience for a new generation of students.
CTY is not for everyone, but it can be transformative for the right person, and I am an advocate. I am also available to answer questions.
I attended the presentation tonight and found out that the students will be assessed on the SCAT, which appears to be a short (under an hour) test that is easy to administer to many students at once. I looked it up and it appears (from https://www.testingmom.com/tests/scat-test/ ):
In May 1996, CTY purchased all rights to the SCAT from Educational Testing Service (ETS) and entered into an agreement with Prometric to computerize the SCAT and make the test available at computer test centers.
So, the SCAT is the CTY's test. It's $103 to be tested (or $10 for students who qualify for free/reduced price lunch). The verbal section is analogies, and the math section is quantitative comparisons.
Interestingly, these are both the types of items that have been removed from the SATs. The analogies were removed from the SATs in 2005 in response to concerns of socio-economic bias of these items. So, it's strange to see analogies currently being used as the basis of a test for giftedness in verbal ability, especially by an institution that one would expect to be an expert on assessments of the gifted.
I was a bit underwhelmed with the process, as it reminded me of the saying: I suppose it is tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail.
In my opinion the testing is a bit antiquated but, if the student is accepted into the program, it is a wonderful opportunity. I would equate it to an early college experience with lots of social supports built in. It’s also a great item to have on the students transcript ( be sure the school puts it on there ) when applying to higher ed.
I'm not disagreeing with the value some students get out of attending CTY programming.
My point is just that if a student does not 'qualify' for the CTY programming, I wouldn't interpret that score to mean that they aren't 'bright' enough to handle it or get value out of it. It seems more likely that students would be disqualified because of the limitations of this test to recognize their abilities and potential.
Hopkins will provide a record of the coursework your child has taken, for a fee of course.
annielou said:
In my opinion the testing is a bit antiquated but, if the student is accepted into the program, it is a wonderful opportunity. I would equate it to an early college experience with lots of social supports built in. It’s also a great item to have on the students transcript ( be sure the school puts it on there ) when applying to higher ed.
In response to sprout, out of the thousands who test for CTY, only a sliver actually qualify for the coveted summer program. Other students can qualify for supplementary on-line courses in conjunction with their schools.Kids need to know this up front. Agreed it’s not a reflection of ones total picture.
One outcome from this meeting that seemed like a positive to me, as a parent: When the presenter asked who had a child who was "afraid of seeming smart in school", there were quite a few chuckles indicating something closer to the opposite. That issue hasn't seemed like area of concern so far, and the response across the other parents in the room was reassuring.
My son took the test as a seventh grader, he sat for the SAT in Millburn. It was a learning experience for him in test taking and in self image. We found it to be worthwhile. We never did any Hopkins programs as we made other choices.
As a parent, you have to decide whether this fits with your goals for your child, emotionally and educationally.
annielou said:
Well that can be true of any test
Sorry -- somehow I missed this previously.
Yes, tests tend to have limitations in identifying what they are supposed to identify. But there are types of tests and types of test questions that are known for having additional limitations, such as bias. So, I was surprised that CTY is using a type that is fairly well-known for having a socioeconomic bias.
Their programs definitely skew towards those than can afford expensive extracurricular activities.
sprout said:
annielou said:
Well that can be true of any test
Sorry -- somehow I missed this previously.
Yes, tests tend to have limitations in identifying what they are supposed to identify. But there are types of tests and types of test questions that are known for having additional limitations, such as bias. So, I was surprised that CTY is using a type that is fairly well-known for having a socioeconomic bias.
Unfortunately most colleges still rely on the SAT as a filtering factor. My experience with CTY is that they are not all that flexible regarding the use of the SAT to qualify participants. The question was raised at a meeting I attended and the response was quick: this is what they’ve found that works for them. End of conversation.
Both my kids did the 7th grade testing and benefited from that low-risk, low-stress opportunity to take the SAT or ACT. One qualified and one didn’t for the summer and other enrichment programs which, by the way, do have financial aid programs.
The one who qualified attended one such program (a Mandarin immersion camp) and really loved it and did well in it.
annielou said:
Unfortunately most colleges still rely on the SAT as a filtering factor. My experience with CTY is that they are not all that flexible regarding the use of the SAT to qualify participants. The question was raised at a meeting I attended and the response was quick: this is what they’ve found that works for them. End of conversation.
I think you missed what I posted above:
CTY is not using the SAT for those who attended this meeting at SOMS. They are administering a shorter test the program purchased back in the 1990's, the SCAT.
The question about socioeconomic bias was raised at the meeting I attended as well. The response from the presenter was "I have heard that concern before".
The presenter then told us that the SATs could be an alternative option instead to test into CTY (since the SATs no longer have analogies). However, after that she added that the SATs may not really be an option for this year's summer program since the next administration of the SATs is in March, so test scores may arrive too late for any summer programs to have spots left... So, actually, the SCAT is the only option left to test into the summer programming.
sprout said:
annielou said:
Unfortunately most colleges still rely on the SAT as a filtering factor. My experience with CTY is that they are not all that flexible regarding the use of the SAT to qualify participants. The question was raised at a meeting I attended and the response was quick: this is what they’ve found that works for them. End of conversation.
I think you missed what I posted above:
CTY is not using the SAT for those who attended this meeting at SOMS. They are administering a shorter test the program purchased back in the 1990's, the SCAT.
The question about socioeconomic bias was raised at the meeting I attended as well. The response from the presenter was "I have heard that concern before".
The presenter then told us that the SATs could be an alternative option instead to test into CTY (since the SATs no longer have analogies). However, after that she added that the SATs may not really be an option for this year's summer program since the next administration of the SATs is in March, so test scores may arrive too late for any summer programs to have spots left... So, actually, the SCAT is the only option left to test into the summer programming.
They no longer have a January SAT? (That was the standard one that the 7th graders always took in the past.)
Sponsored Business
Promote your business here - Businesses get highlighted throughout the site and you can add a deal.
For Sale
Garage Sales
-
HUGE Rummage sale to benefit the Bloomfield High School Robotics Team Sale Date: Apr 27, 2024
More info
I'm not sure that this is being distributed widely, so I'm posting here. There will be a Johns Hopkins Center for Talented Youth (CTY) information session on Weds 12/13 at 6pm @ SOMS for families of students in grades 2-8.
It appears that near the end of January the CTY program will be hosting a testing session in town (the students may take the SAT?) for 7th graders.
Any current 7th grade student who scored at Level “5” on the 6th grade PARCC, in either Language Arts and/or Math, qualifies as a participant in the CTY testing. Not sure if others can request to participate. (I assume one could ask at the info session if parents can request to have their child tested by CTY. A defense such as: testing for giftedness seems like an off-label usage of the PARCC; it's only one measure; and a multitude of other reasons that students who might be interested could miss out on this opportunity).
My understanding is that the end result is a fairly low-stress experience for a 7th grader to take the SAT (I'm not sure if the family pays the testing fees), followed by several mailings about opportunities to attend expensive CTY camps over the summer.