Is there science to support this?

Cranio Sacral therapy???


Best Regards

Ron 


Dépends who you talk to, and what they’re relying on. 

Are you talking about for a child or and adult? What kind of injury?

(A recent Cochrane review of dentistry showed that many accepted practised actually aren’t of the benefit everyone thought they were, for example, so we need more info to discuss your question)


joanne said:
Dépends who you talk to, and what they’re relying on. 
Are you talking about for a child or and adult? What kind of injury?
(A recent Cochrane review of dentistry showed that many accepted practised actually aren’t of the benefit everyone thought they were, for example, so we need more info to discuss your question)

 well, all quack therapies depend "who you talk to, and what they’re relying on.",.

If they're relying on science, the answer is no.


I agree completely with Drummerboy. Cochrane is the best source for evidence-based medicine.  


I am talking about evidence-based, and Cochrane reviews, and also recently published research on PLoS etc.

I also know you don't credit the nocebo effect even though it is accepted in best-practice for pain management strategies where there other techniques may be unavailable. Nocebo is demonstrable but not understood; it's not 'woo'.

Regardless, it's well after 3am on a very dark and rainy night; I'm migraining and with an exceptionally sore lower back. I'm going to try (once again) to get some drug-free sleep.

cheese


Sham-controlled study from 2016

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4894825/#__ffn_sectitle

PLoS study from 2016

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0167823

Mayo Clinic transcranial treatment info from last year

https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/transcranial-magnetic-stimulation/about/pac-20384625  There's a similar treatment offered for low back pain, using special heat pads at the same time. (I believe it's something to do with either how the glial cells respond or how the vagus nerve itself responds)


It's now 5am, and I haven't slept at all.  My pain levels haven't eased either. Sigh.




joanne said:
Sham-controlled study from 2016
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4894825/#__ffn_sectitle
PLoS study from 2016
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0167823
Mayo Clinic transcranial treatment info from last year

https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/transcranial-magnetic-stimulation/about/pac-20384625  There's a similar treatment offered for low back pain, using special heat pads at the same time. (I believe it's something to do with either how the glial cells respond or how the vagus nerve itself responds)



It's now 5am, and I haven't slept at all.  My pain levels haven't eased either. Sigh.




 Good stuff.  And a complete surprise to me.  


I've had it, and it's pretty surprising, in the face of my own skepticism.


I am not able to tell you about direct experience with cranio sacral, but I was just reading in Consumer's Reports that massage therapy can not be proven scientifically, but there is data to show that it is effective for many for back pain. 


The problem is that stuff like massage therapy depends on self-reporting. Pain is not an organic condition that can be measured reliably across people - it all depends on what people say.

You know what else is effective for back pain for many people? Doing nothing and letting the body heal. How does one separate that effect from the fact that while my body was healing, I decided to get some massage therapy? To what do I attribute my lessened pain? Natural healing, or massage therapy? And how could I possibly know the difference?


Drummerboy I don't disagree. I am of mixed minds about any of this. 


It's a tough nut to crack.


DB, you would've really enjoyed yourself at the Forum I attended today, listening to the pain management specialists and palliative care people cheese

'Doing nothing' for persistent or chronic pain is, in fact, the wrong advice these days particularly if one is dealing with neuropathic pain. I know there's an equivalent organisation in US but it's been a long day for me here, and I need to get ready for sleep. Loads of great advice from Australia, UK and elsewhere here:

https://www.painaustralia.org.au/health-professionals/resources/fact-sheet 

It includes a handy Pain Toolkit that can be customised. Please note the emphasis on psycho-social and culturally appropriate solutions for non-acute pain with a non-determined cause: the current view is that if it does no further harm AND it helps the individual to feel less isolated/regain some function, there should not be barriers.

Fascinating study on the impact of expectation and attention on perception (and sensory stimulation, objectivity etc - implications are quite broad)

https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.3000233 


There are some kinds of treatment that are not proven to work and can't be proven to work, ever. But that doesn't mean they are ineffective. Acupuncture is one of those. I don't remember the scientific explanation about why proof is impossible. But we had a dog who couldn't walk. We were faced with needing to put her down. We took her to a veterinarian who gave her chiropractic and acupuncture. The next day, she was up and about and had a spring in her step. We had to take her in every couple of months, and the same thing happened. The dog was not experiencing a placebo effect, i.e. she didn't say, "Yeah, I think I'm better, therefore I am." She just walked eagerly and easily. And we extended her life by two years.

So if you think cranio-sacral therapy works for you, you are not necessarily full of it, even if @drummerboy thinks you are.


Tom_Reingold said:
There are some kinds of treatment that are not proven to work and can't be proven to work, ever. But that doesn't mean they are ineffective. Acupuncture is one of those. I don't remember the scientific explanation about why proof is impossible. But we had a dog who couldn't walk. We were faced with needing to put her down. We took her to a veterinarian who gave her chiropractic and acupuncture. The next day, she was up and about and had a spring in her step. We had to take her in every couple of months, and the same thing happened. The dog was not experiencing a placebo effect, i.e. she didn't say, "Yeah, I think I'm better, therefore I am." She just walked eagerly and easily. And we extended her life by two years.
So if you think cranio-sacral therapy works for you, you are not necessarily full of it, even if @drummerboy thinks you are.

 

Actually the placebo effect has been shown to be way more than woo  in some people it has been shown to trigger chemical reactions in the brain.  




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