Inspector General Review of the Trump/Russia Investigation
paulsurovell said:
Hillary could have done everyone a big favor if she had just owned up to her financing of the dossier and apologized for its false and incendiary allegations which led our country down a rabbit hole and poisoned relations with the country that we depend on for our survival.
As Emily Litella would say, "Never mind".
"We determined that the election reporting from Christopher Steele played no role in the opening of Crossfire Hurricane. As described in Chapter Four, while some individuals in the FBI, including Steele's handling agent, had received Steele's election reporting as early as July 2016, the CD officials at FBI Headquarters and the members of the Crossfire Hurricane team did not receive the first Steele reports until September 19-weeks after the Crossfire Hurricane investigation was opened-and were not aware of any of the information in the reports prior to that date. We also found no evidence that the FBI undertook any investigative activities directed at the Trump campaign or members of the Trump campaign before opening Crossfire Hurricane on July 31, 2016. As described in Chapters Three and Nine, the FBI had ongoing investigations of Paul Manafort and Carter Page at that time, which were unrelated to the information that predicated Crossfire Hurricane."
IG Report, page 352 note 485.
paulsurovell said:
Tomorrow's hearing should be interesting.
What a ******** statement that is.
There's always the old stand-by if the facts aren't found in your favor - make things up.
BREAKING → The IG report proves Obama officials abused their FISA power to trigger an investigation into @realDonaldTrump's campaign. Just more evidence Dems will break any rule or law to rig an election against Trump. These crooked bureaucrats must be held accountable!
ridski said:
paulsurovell said:
Tomorrow's hearing should be interesting.
What a ******** statement that is.
That's total ************ ***** ******. And this isn't the first time you **** ***** ***.
It doesn’t actually say what is incorrect in the IG report, and it’s issued by a US Attorney in the mid-investigation. So yeah, it’s a ******** statement.
Inspector General Michael Horowitz is superb and has tremendous integrity. No wonder he has the excellent reputation that he has.
cramer said:
Inspector General Michael Horowitz is superb and has tremendous integrity. No wonder he has the excellent reputation that he has.
He did a good job exposing Christopher Steele as a scam artist and his dossier as a fraud.
paulsurovell said:
He did a good job exposing Christopher Steele as a scam artist and his dossier as a fraud.
Sounds like somebody got "Bingo".
If you have "Lindsey Graham talks about golden showers during a Senate hearing" on your dystopia bingo card, today is your lucky day! pic.twitter.com/EJmhjzEFR9
It's so creepy how Graham forces a smile during his questioning. Weird guy.
Steele Dossier had zero evidence of opening up the Crossfire Hurricane project
jamie said:
Steele Dossier had zero evidence of opening up the Crossfire Hurricane project
But it was bogus and
Horowitz:
We determined that the Crossfire Hurricane team’s receipt of Steele’s election reporting on September 19, 2016 played a central and essential role in the FBI’s and Department’s decision to seek the FISA order.
paulsurovell said:
jamie said:
Steele Dossier had zero evidence of opening up the Crossfire Hurricane project
But it was bogus and
Horowitz:
We determined that the Crossfire Hurricane team’s receipt of Steele’s election reporting on September 19, 2016 played a central and essential role in the FBI’s and Department’s decision to seek the FISA order.
+10
paulsurovell said:
jamie said:
Steele Dossier had zero evidence of opening up the Crossfire Hurricane project
But it was bogus and
Horowitz:
We determined that the Crossfire Hurricane team’s receipt of Steele’s election reporting on September 19, 2016 played a central and essential role in the FBI’s and Department’s decision to seek the FISA order.
For years you said it was the reason why the collusion investigation began.
This is from April:
paulsurovell said:
The FBI hired Steele and used his dossier to obtain surveillance warrants on the campaign.
Do you still stand behind this?
Jamie, “used his dossier to obtain surveillance warrants” is what Horowitz found. The distinction, as you noted in the previous comment, is with “why the collusion investigation began” (which predated the FISA application).
Republicans Condemn FBI’s Use of Surveillance Powers They Long Supported
Self-described security hawks now say they see major problems in surveillance law
WASHINGTON—One by one, Republican senators expressed outrage Wednesday that the Federal Bureau of Investigation had committed errors in how it sought and obtained surveillance on a former Trump campaign adviser, describing the findings contained in a new inspector general report as evidence of alarming privacy violations that could be wielded against any American.
The concerns echoed those made by civil liberties advocates for decades. But they came this time from self-described national security hawks who have long voted to renew and expand U.S. surveillance powers.
In dressing down the FBI during Justice Department Inspector General Michael Horowitz’s testimony about his report on the origins of the FBI’s Russia investigation, several Republicans suggested they were open to major alterations of a post-Watergate intelligence law known as the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, or FISA.
Horowitz doesn't actually state the dossier was used to obtain the FISA warrant. It played a role in the decision to seek the warrant. We've all seen the redacted request for warrant a long time ago. And the dossier wasn't central to the request.
cramer said:
Republicans Condemn FBI’s Use of Surveillance Powers They Long Supported
Self-described security hawks now say they see major problems in surveillance law
WASHINGTON—One by one, Republican senators expressed outrage Wednesday that the Federal Bureau of Investigation had committed errors in how it sought and obtained surveillance on a former Trump campaign adviser, describing the findings contained in a new inspector general report as evidence of alarming privacy violations that could be wielded against any American.
The concerns echoed those made by civil liberties advocates for decades. But they came this time from self-described national security hawks who have long voted to renew and expand U.S. surveillance powers.
In dressing down the FBI during Justice Department Inspector General Michael Horowitz’s testimony about his report on the origins of the FBI’s Russia investigation, several Republicans suggested they were open to major alterations of a post-Watergate intelligence law known as the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, or FISA.
this was actually something I pointed out long time ago. If people have a problem with the FISA court and the FISA warrant process, that is a completely legitimate concern. But as Horowitz's report indicates, it wasn't used in any biased way against Trump. That's how the process works for anyone under suspicion. If it takes a corrupt con man like Trump to point out that the FISA process is a terrible civil liberties abuse, so be it. But there isn't any evidence that Trump was treated unfairly because of who he is. The process is inherently unfair and prone to abuse.
ml1 said:
Horowitz doesn't actually state the dossier was used to obtain the FISA warrant. It played a role in the decision to seek the warrant. We've all seen the redacted request for warrant a long time ago. And the dossier wasn't central to the request.
Yes, thank you, ml1.
jamie said:
paulsurovell said:
jamie said:
Steele Dossier had zero evidence of opening up the Crossfire Hurricane project
But it was bogus and
Horowitz:
We determined that the Crossfire Hurricane team’s receipt of Steele’s election reporting on September 19, 2016 played a central and essential role in the FBI’s and Department’s decision to seek the FISA order.For years you said it was the reason why the collusion investigation began.
Your memory is faulty. What I've said for years is that it was a fraud. And I've been proven right.
It was actually obvious to anyone skeptical of what comes out of the mainstream media and the intelligence community. In other words, anyone who remembers the lessons of the Iraq WMD hoax created by the intelligence community and propagated by the mainstream media.
DaveSchmidt said:
ml1 said:
Horowitz doesn't actually state the dossier was used to obtain the FISA warrant. It played a role in the decision to seek the warrant. We've all seen the redacted request for warrant a long time ago. And the dossier wasn't central to the request.
Yes, thank you, ml1.
Where are you guys getting this erroneous information?
p 363:
In all four applications, the factual basis supporting probable cause relied
upon Page's historical (pre-2016) contacts with known Russian intelligence officers,
as well as information from four Steele reports (Reports 80, 94, 95, and 102). The
most prominent of the Steele reports were Report 94 concerning alleged secret
meetings between Carter Page and two Russian nationals (Igor Sechin and Igor
Divyekin) in July 2016, and Report 95 concerning the alleged role of Page as an
intermediary between the Trump campaign and Russia. According to Report 95,
Paul Manafort was using Page as an intermediary between the Trump campaign and
Russia in a "well-developed conspiracy" that involved Russia's agreement to
disclose hacked DNC emails to Wikileaks in exchange for the Trump campaign's
agreement, to include at least Page, to sideline Russian intervention in Ukraine as a
campaign issue. Steele told us that the allegations in Report 95 came from one
person (Person 1) and were provided to Steele by Steele's Primary Sub-source.
The allegation in Report 102 that Russia released the DNC emails to Wikileaks in an
attempt to swing voters to Trump, an objective allegedly conceived and promoted
by Page and others, also came from Person 1 and was provided to Steele by
Steele's Primary Sub-source. 491
And the Steele dossier did more than "play a role" in the decision to go forward with the FISA application, it played "a central and essential role" as follows:
p.359:
We concluded that the Crossfire Hurricane team's receipt of Steele's election
reporting on September 19, 2016, played a central and essential role in the
decision by FBI OGC to support the request for FISA surveillance targeting Carter
Page, as well as the Department's ultimate decision to seek the FISA order. In
particular, the OGC Unit Chief told us that she thought probable cause was a "close
call" when the team first proposed seeking a FISA in mid-August and separately
when she discussed the idea with 01 around the same time. She said that it was
the Steele reporting received in September, concerning Page's alleged activities
with Russian officials in the summer of 2016, that "pushed it over" the line in terms
of establishing probable cause that Page was acting in concert with Russian
officials.
jamie said:
This is from April:
paulsurovell said:
The FBI hired Steele and used his dossier to obtain surveillance warrants on the campaign.Do you still stand behind this?
100%
Crime in Progress does a really good job documenting Steele's findings on Trump's buddies: Page - Manafort - Sater - Deripaska - Millian - Stone - Flynn and others. After reading most of this - I have to say - it's good Steele was doing this research. The amount of questionable connections is staggering.
paulsurovell said:
It was actually obvious to anyone skeptical of what comes out of the mainstream media and the intelligence community. In other words, anyone who remembers the lessons of the Iraq WMD hoax created by the intelligence community and propagated by the mainstream media.
Your memory of the Iraq WMD issue is quite faulty if you think it's analogous to the Russian interference issue.
Specific WMD claims were being made, and debunked, in real-time back in 2002. (by your hero Scott Ritter, among others. Who was all over the MSM at the time, btw.) The claims were being driven from the top-down, by the WH - not by intelligence agencies. The WH manipulated and stove-piped intelligence to build their case. And they did it quote poorly, which is why their claims quickly fell apart.
For the Russian interference issue, you are claiming a massive conspiracy by multiple intelligence agencies, driven from the bottom up, and which apparently includes the Senate Intelligence committee and all of their staffers. And which is apparently leak-proof.
The Intelligence committee has made numerous claims of how Russia interfered. Please show us how those individual claims have been disproved or debunked.
paulsurovell said:
jamie said:
This is from April:
paulsurovell said:
The FBI hired Steele and used his dossier to obtain surveillance warrants on the campaign.Do you still stand behind this?
100%
you're implying the FBI hired Steele regarding the dossier. Is that your claim?
paulsurovell said:
jamie said:
This is from April:
paulsurovell said:
The FBI hired Steele and used his dossier to obtain surveillance warrants on the campaign.Do you still stand behind this?
100%
The FBI hired Steele? I missed that reference.
The warrants were for surveillance on Carter Page, not on anyone in the campaign. "Donald Trump’s campaign is denying any connection to a man that it previously named as a foreign policy adviser, who is reportedly being investigated for alleged ties to the Kremlin."
paulsurovell said:
jamie said:
paulsurovell said:
jamie said:
Steele Dossier had zero evidence of opening up the Crossfire Hurricane project
But it was bogus and
Horowitz:
We determined that the Crossfire Hurricane team’s receipt of Steele’s election reporting on September 19, 2016 played a central and essential role in the FBI’s and Department’s decision to seek the FISA order.For years you said it was the reason why the collusion investigation began.
Your memory is faulty. What I've said for years is that it was a fraud. And I've been proven right.
Example: as early as December 16, 2017:
paulsurovell said:
What seems to be emerging now is the strong possibility that the bogus dirty dossier was the actual trigger for the FBI's counterintelligence investigation which was taken over by Mueller
There was never any support for that "strong possibility", which explains the usual weasel words.
Looking back over those discussions via the MOL "search" function really shows all the "Deep State" nonsense that was promulgated here, which the IG report demolished. No wonder some posters are cranky about it.
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This is only a guess, but maybe that disagreement involves this conclusion on page 312 of the Inspector General's report: