fox and falcon
I'll report back when one of my friends inevitably invites me there. I've got a new credit card with no interest for a while, maybe I'll put it on that.
ml1 said:
ridski said:It's more like we live in a place where restaurants make burgers out of ingredients that are worth $18. In most areas of the country they're tossing a pre-formed patty on the grill and slapping a slice of American cheese on it. I've had the $16 burger at Cassidy and the ingredients justify the price. That said, I've stopped in at the bar, ordered a burger and a glass of wine and after tax and tip I'm out almost $35. That's a price that will give almost anyone pause.
I guess I just forget sometimes that I live in a place where no one bats an eyelid at an $18 burger.
Ain't that the truth. When I go out to eat, I like to hold forth on the quality of the ingredients and how it justifies the price.
Nah, not really. I have yet to find a burger worth more than what I pay for a Five Guys burger or a steak worth a whole lot more than what I pay at Bonefish Grill.
mrmaplewood said:
This reminds me of the brew houses that charge the same for a bottle of Budweiser as their home brewed craft beer, an incentive to try their specialty.
$20,000 a year taxes seems to be quite cheap for this area considering what I pay for my residence. Is there some error here
The figure I quoted was some 10 to 15 years ago. I am only guessing but remember restaurants have little additional land to be taxed and don't know if they are assessed any school taxes.
What I do know is the owner of the Village Coffee building recently paid $27,000 a year in taxes.
This package takes in rentals from 8 apts.
Restaurant costs............Village coffee and the Japanese restaurant both pay $9,500.00 a month in rent. Neither has an $18.00 hamburger. I don't think either features an $18.00 entree.
author said:
mrmaplewood said:The figure I quoted was some 10 to 15 years ago. I am only guessing but remember restaurants have little additional land to be taxed and don't know if they are assessed any school taxes.
This reminds me of the brew houses that charge the same for a bottle of Budweiser as their home brewed craft beer, an incentive to try their specialty.
$20,000 a year taxes seems to be quite cheap for this area considering what I pay for my residence. Is there some error here
What I do know is the owner of the Village Coffee building recently paid $27,000 a year in taxes.
This package takes in rentals from 8 apts.
Restaurant costs............Village coffee and the Japanese restaurant both pay $9,500.00 a month in rent. Neither has an $18.00 hamburger. I don't think either features an $18.00 entree.
I guess you haven't eaten at the Japanese restaurant
ml1 said:
author said:I guess you haven't eaten at the Japanese restaurant
mrmaplewood said:The figure I quoted was some 10 to 15 years ago. I am only guessing but remember restaurants have little additional land to be taxed and don't know if they are assessed any school taxes.
This reminds me of the brew houses that charge the same for a bottle of Budweiser as their home brewed craft beer, an incentive to try their specialty.
$20,000 a year taxes seems to be quite cheap for this area considering what I pay for my residence. Is there some error here
What I do know is the owner of the Village Coffee building recently paid $27,000 a year in taxes.
This package takes in rentals from 8 apts.
Restaurant costs............Village coffee and the Japanese restaurant both pay $9,500.00 a month in rent. Neither has an $18.00 hamburger. I don't think either features an $18.00 entree.
Actually I have but it is not my favorite type of food stuff. I stick to a sizzling beef dish which includes a simple salad topped with ginger. Soup and main dish is included for $16.00.
Forty years ago that space was Mr. Fino's Powder Puff Beauty Salon. After Mr.Fino retired, his partner Andre continued the business for a while. Andre later decided to work part time and went to
work at a salon on Springfield Ave. I met him years later when he was having coffee at the store owned by my friend Big Bob on Ridgewood Road. He was adding a copious amount of sugar to his coffee. That much sugar would not be allowed even in Starbucks.
FYI, they presently have a "limited" kids menu (I guess it will expand in the future) consisting of penne pasta (with olive oil or marinara), chicken nuggets, and kid's burger. Not sure how these are priced. Will find out tonight.
author said:Actually I have but it is not my favorite type of food stuff. I stick to a sizzling beef dish which includes a simple salad topped with ginger. Soup and main dish is included for $16.00.
The sushi or sashimi platters are going to run you around $25
tjohn said:
ml1 said:Ain't that the truth. When I go out to eat, I like to hold forth on the quality of the ingredients and how it justifies the price.
ridski said:It's more like we live in a place where restaurants make burgers out of ingredients that are worth $18. In most areas of the country they're tossing a pre-formed patty on the grill and slapping a slice of American cheese on it. I've had the $16 burger at Cassidy and the ingredients justify the price. That said, I've stopped in at the bar, ordered a burger and a glass of wine and after tax and tip I'm out almost $35. That's a price that will give almost anyone pause.
I guess I just forget sometimes that I live in a place where no one bats an eyelid at an $18 burger.
Nah, not really. I have yet to find a burger worth more than what I pay for a Five Guys burger or a steak worth a whole lot more than what I pay at Bonefish Grill.
I agree that anyone who can't taste the difference between a fast food burger and the one at the Cassidy would be wasting their money.
I love the vibe of the Fox and the Falcon. I had so much fun when I sat at the bar on Friday night. Only had the hamburger, which was good, but knock your socks off good. I don’t care for their Italian only wines by the glass—wasn’t that impressed by their white wine selection... Working on it, I’m sure.
ml1 said:
author said:The sushi or sashimi platters are going to run you around $25
Actually I have but it is not my favorite type of food stuff. I stick to a sizzling beef dish which includes a simple salad topped with ginger. Soup and main dish is included for $16.00.
No they won't since I won't eat them.
Steve said:
Appears that taxes on 166 Maplewood Ave are approaching $52k/year.
Wow. Did you authenticate that with tax records? I was quoting figures given to me in a casual conversation by the owner. Since he owned several buildings in the Village maybe he quoted figures from another building.
author said:
ml1 said:No they won't since I won't eat them.
author said:The sushi or sashimi platters are going to run you around $25
Actually I have but it is not my favorite type of food stuff. I stick to a sizzling beef dish which includes a simple salad topped with ginger. Soup and main dish is included for $16.00.
author said:
Steve said:Wow. Did you authenticate that with tax records? I was quoting figures given to me in a casual conversation by the owner. Since he owned several buildings in the Village maybe he quoted figures from another building.
Appears that taxes on 166 Maplewood Ave are approaching $52k/year.
It’s a fact:
http://tax1.co.monmouth.nj.us/cgi-bin/m4.cgi?district=0711&l02=071100013__0900186_________M
Meh. Burger definitely wasn't worth $18. And, by the way, was pre-formed. Full review tomorrow. Lots to discuss...
marylago said:
author said:It’s a fact:
Steve said:Wow. Did you authenticate that with tax records? I was quoting figures given to me in a casual conversation by the owner. Since he owned several buildings in the Village maybe he quoted figures from another building.
Appears that taxes on 166 Maplewood Ave are approaching $52k/year.
http://tax1.co.monmouth.nj.us/cgi-bin/m4.cgi?district=0711&l02=071100013__0900186_________M
I don't doubt it. Since the figure he quoted me was almost exactly half your researched one......whether
he was quoting a 6 month bill.
No matter. The owner of the Village Coffee building also receives remuneration for leasing the rear parking lot back to the Twp.
lanky said:
Meh. Burger definitely wasn't worth $18. And, by the way, was pre-formed. Full review tomorrow. Lots to discuss...
Pre-formed?!?! That is just shocking.
mikescott said:
mrincredible said:Burgers are also the most popular item and even if they overcharge for one, it will still be a top-seller in terms of percentage of sales. And when a party of four goes out for dinner, odds are at least one person will have "just a burger" while the rest of the party will be more adventurous and try other dishes. So one person not wanting to over pay for a burger is not going to change the decision to go out and have a nice time.
ridski said:This the most sensible post ever on MOL and the one I agree with the most.
Just to clarify my personal obsession with the price of burgers is that it's a simple way to compare different places and price points. If the burger, typically the cheapest item on the dinner menu, is outrageously overpriced, then I imagine everything will be and I'd rather stay at home. I personally think $18 for a sandwich is a stupid price point. You might as well spray it gold and charge $90. It's just not worth it.
Lots of items are overpriced in a restaurant and some offer a good value, but most people go out because they want a good experience, and especially -- good service. Then the pricing issue of a burger vs a ribeye goes away.
By the way, a 1/4 pounder with fries is about $8 at McDonalds and is about $11.00 at the local diners. So is $18 that far out of line for a better quality burger in a nice restaurant?
Park Wood burgers crank out at about $7.00. I don't order fries. Maybe a soup along with it. Burgers are 1/2 pound, which is too much so I try to split it. Like most burgers anywhere, it is 15% fat. Probably the same at Cassidy's or F & F.
The price point comparison is the focal point of this thread. Beyond that, what makes a good value burger? Maybe the bun? There is one place in town where the meat was so fatty, the bun got soggy and I ended up with a dripping, floppy bun. I never went back. That was a year ago. My surprise. Its still in business.
Burger spices? Maybe some Back Bay? (My grandson puts it on everything.) Cajun stuff, Greek spice. Worth $16 or 18? Meh.
Ambiance. There are people in upper income bracket who will go for that. We do have $ml. houses in our area. But are there enough of those people who want to go out 2 or three times a week to support the place?
Vibe? I am not sure what that is but to me, it ain't worth a high priced menu unless a gift certificate for a business prospect or a first date. And I ain't getting no first dates since I'm too old and not too good looking.
There you have it. Cassidy's may support this. It is smaller. So I predict in three years, we will be posting about the ambiance of the new "Ostrich and 'possum" restaurant.
NOTE: This post it my entry for the most sensible post this year. I hope it displaces Mr. Incredible's post, above which was so designated. Please vote for my post.
If the burger is amazing, no one will complain. Anyone who has had an incredible burger knows this. People in the mood for a great burger, and there are many of us, will go there for that. If its just ok, or even "good" then the $18 comes up.
I guess I am in that class of diner for whom great meals are more a function of the time, place and people I am with than the food by itself. And I have been to quite a few restaurants where the first time is the best experience and it becomes progressively more ordinary after that.
General comments:
- Kids menu is small (3 items), pricey ($10 - $12) and the portions are far too big for children.
- Same kinda goes for the wines by the glass offering ($17-$19), minus the portion size comment.
- Dining room layout is a bit odd, seems they could fit in more tables without greatly impacting guest atmosphere (thereby generating more volume / revenue).
Specific comments:
- Biggest complaint - despite us getting there on the earlier side with still-open tables, the kitchen was extremely slow - our food (2 burgers, kid's burger, kid's pasta) took 45 minutes from order to table and our hungry children were certainly restless.
- One side dish ordered never came (seemed to be waiter error / not entering in)
- Specific food mods ordered didn't make it to plate
Floor manager quickly recognized errors / lateness of food / general dissatisfaction and took over our table and generally rectified the situation to our satisfaction so we will return to give it another shot.
The Food:
- Burger was seasoned and cooked well, but looking at / sampling the three different ones around our table, they looked and tasted identical. These are the machine-formed LaFrieda patties. Too-dense, uniform and too finely-ground IMO. I've never understood the mystique around LaFrieda burgers. Give me a hand-formed Corner Bistro burger over a LaFrieda every time. Bun was nice, pickles were dilly. FYI, kid's burger wasn't much smaller than the adult's.
- Fries were tasty, crispy and well-seasoned.
- Kids' pasta with red sauce was fairly straightforward, kid enjoyed it, once again fairly big portion size. 10 y.o. ate about half.
tjohn said:
lanky said:Pre-formed?!?! That is just shocking.
Meh. Burger definitely wasn't worth $18. And, by the way, was pre-formed. Full review tomorrow. Lots to discuss...
Choosing to serve a pre-formed burger is the sign of chef / restauranteur that is either lazy or doesn't really enjoy a good burger.
boomie said:
Ok that wine by the glass pricing BOTHERS me. Way too much.
And that's for a "quartino" so 7ish ounces. Wish I had taken a photo of the offerings so I could cross-reference to retail value of a bottle.
despite what my comments might imply, I am not a food snob. I like all kinds of food. I like White Castle as much as the next person (maybe more than the next person). One of my guilty pleasures is an occasional Quarter Pounder with cheese. I really like hamburgers. So for me, there is the possibility that I'll conclude that a $16 or $18 burger is worth it. A Five Guys burger or a Shake Shack burger is good, and there are times when I'll have one. But there are also times when I enjoy sitting at the bar at a nice place like the Cassidy and order a nice glass of wine with my burger. And I can't get that under the fluorescent lights at Five Guys.
That said, I've had a lot of hamburgers that aren't worth it at any price. Dried out, overcooked, with goopy cheese and a Wonder bread roll isn't a good experience even at a low price point. As others have stated, with any establishment, it's about whether or not you got full value for the money you spend. Are they succeeding at what they are trying to deliver. And I'd say that White Castle, McDonald's and Five Guys all deliver well on what their product is intended to be. I'd say the same about the Cassidy's $16 hamburger.
I haven't been to Fox & Falcon yet, but I'm looking forward to giving it a try.
okay, here is a picture of 7 ounces of water in a wine glass. I added the wine bottle for scale, since the glass is pretty large. I did this to understand for myself how much a normal glass of wine looks like. This is about what I would pour for myself.
Lanky, they charge 17 dollars for this portion of wine? I am probably out of touch with what's the norm these days but that seems like a lot. Were there less expensive wines by the glass?
Their business model may preclude them from offering too many inexpensive dining and beverage options. They might not be sustainable if each patron averaged say $25 (15 dollar burger, 10 dollar glass of wine) vs $35 (18 dollar burger, 17 dollar glass of wine). That's kind of a rock bottom price point I randomly came up with.
I guess I can understand the 18 dollar burger more than a 17 dollar glass of wine.
And $17 is the lower priced wine option. I work in NYC and go out there a lot. Thats high even there - for a casual restaurant.
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It's more like we live in a place where restaurants make burgers out of ingredients that are worth $18. In most areas of the country they're tossing a pre-formed patty on the grill and slapping a slice of American cheese on it. I've had the $16 burger at Cassidy and the ingredients justify the price. That said, I've stopped in at the bar, ordered a burger and a glass of wine and after tax and tip I'm out almost $35. That's a price that will give almost anyone pause.