Do you have any experience with Miniature Brass Buttons ground cover? archived

spontaneous said:

At this point I'm even willing to plant crabgrass if I thought it would at least cover the dirt.

Apparently even crabgrass needs full sun. Seriously. Is there ANYTHING we can grow?

We have the same problem with a giant oak. Apparently, the root system is so vast and thirsty that, even if we get the grass started (which we did, yet again this year), then the tree roots will suck the moisture away. We'd have to water the heck out of it to sustain it. The super duper helpful and honest guy at the morristown agway suggested being creative with gravel and mulch . We ended up mulching a big area around the jungle gym and defining a way smaller grass area. That way we have to water the heck out of a much smaller spot. Wish us luck!

After spending an hour on google (yes, my *lawn* is keeping me awake, and yes, I know just how pathetic that is) I have found a website called stepables that sells plants for lawn alternatives.

I'm torn between Irish moss (not the seaweed kind) or miniature brass buttons. The miniature brass buttons apparently can take full shade AND high traffic. They will have to be watered, but if watering the lawn once or twice a week gives us something besides the dirt/mud we currently have then I'll be happy to do it.

ETA: And it doesn't have to be mowed, which is ALWAYS a plus!

The magical lawn alternative that is going to change my life and make me popular at parties.

We had the same situation in our front yard. Our very mature oak tree sapped the ground of any naturally occurring water and nutrients. We ultimately opted to put in additional top soil and a sprinkler system. Not inexpensive, But, the difference is amazing.

We've added soil, added other stuff, tilled, etc. We can grow grass, it comes in thick. But it dies when walked on too much. We have two young boys and a dog, so high traffic describes our lawn usage to a T.

Bee said:

We have the same problem with a giant oak. Apparently, the root system is so vast and thirsty that, even if we get the grass started (which we did, yet again this year), then the tree roots will suck the moisture away. We'd have to water the heck out of it to sustain it. The super duper helpful and honest guy at the morristown agway suggested being creative with gravel and mulch . We ended up mulching a big area around the jungle gym and defining a way smaller grass area. That way we have to water the heck out of a much smaller spot. Wish us luck!

I have your exact problem... After replanting grass, it looked so nice and green and full and all the sudden I'm seeing it all die out before my eyes... also have a huge oak that both shades it and sucks out moisture but i do like that oak

spontaneous said:

We've added soil, added other stuff, tilled, etc. We can grow grass, it comes in thick. But it dies when walked on too much. We have two young boys and a dog, so high traffic describes our lawn usage to a T.

Stepables has some nice options that support high traffic. I also spent nights doing the same research because with a 2yr old we really wanted something soft for him to roll around. We ended up being able to grow grass. We did mix some miniature clover in it to make it a bit denser and enrich the soil. So far so good. The grass does get 'trampled' but it recovers relatively well.
The miniature brass buttons do seem like a nice option. Let me know if you do decide to try it and if it works. We have some areas where we would love to add something like this, but since our backwayard would require a significant purchase of this stuff, I never went forward with it. I don't even know where you can buy it locally. I could not find any nurseries that sold this stuff nearby. So hopefully you are able to find some! I would love to hear an update in a few months!

Actually the oak sends out chemicals that kill whatever is around (plantwise) that competes with it's water supply. Some oaks are worse than others.

The maple has such a thick mat of feeder roots that causes the same thing.

When we moved in we had a thick stand of weeds in our back yard, probably because the previous owner had added soil on top of the tree roots. We added more soil and other stuff (can't remember the mix off the top of my head) and also tilled it in. Because of this we have been able to get grass to grow quite thickly, it is only when we allow it to be walked on that it dies. Dense shade grass cannot take a lot of traffic. We have two boys and a dog. High traffic is all our yard sees. Growing up we had a maple where nothing would grow and this was remedied by adding a layer of dirt to separate the roots of the tree from what we were planting. This worked successfully for about 30 years until the maple died of old age. The arborist said that tree was past its life expectancy by a few decades, so I don't think the added dirt contributed to its demise. The area in question is full shade, the only time it sees any direct sunlight is winter through early spring until the tree greens up.

I just remembered, we didn't put regular dirt under the maple 30 years ago, it was mulch. The free stuff you get from the town. I was about 10 at the time and I remember we had to make trip after trip after trip because we were fitting trash cans filled with the stuff in the back of a car.

I don't think Brass Buttons will survive the winter here, they are only hardy to zone 7. I have tried Irish moss and Scottish Moss, Creeping Thyme and Corsican Mint and haven't found any of them to work for large areas. They all seem to die back in winter which causes the soil to wash away and the mosses and mint like a lot of water in summer.

White clover seems to grow anywhere, is hard to kill and is good for the soil. I think the problem with foot traffic areas is that the soil gets compacted which kills the roots. There is a product called Turface that is used on athletic fields to help with compaction. You might be able to get something going with the Turface and a grass clover mix. Zoy grass is tough but I don't know how it will do in shade and it will be brown from fall to spring. Anything you plant will be sensitive to foot traffic and drought until the roots get established for the first year or two.

I have been seeing artificial turf for residential use more and more lately and it does look and feel better than you might expect. It is expensive but might work for a small area.

You can also add some peat moss to the soil. We did this in our backyard (mixed peat moss and top soil) and it made a real difference in the amount of grass that grows back there. We also have two large trees that shade the entire yard from spring to fall, but this year, after trying for the last three we actually have some grass where our son can run around. It is not perfect. There are plenty of weeds, but it is better than it was.

We had rocks and clay back there as you can see from the pictures below. I added before and afters.
Also it is best to seed in early fall. That way you have the winter for the roots to settle and then reseed in the early spring. This way you give the grass some time to grow before it is warm enough for the kids to go out an play.
(Not sure why pictures are sideways since I rotated them).

Nice yard!

Thanks! It took a lot of sweat and tears and I am so happy that I can actually let my 2yr old run around without worring that he will hurt himself on a rock!

what kind of grass did you plant?

A combination of shade grass seeds to be honest. We got bags at HD and Lowes as well some clover seed, mixed it up all up and seeded fall and spring. Also used top soil and a nice dose of pea moss since the soil has so much clay.

We did plant it in the early fall and reseeded in the early spring, which is went we get some sun back there. It is totally shaded now.