Dixie Flag Watch

Happened to notice a Dixie flag flying proudly while going for a drive over the weekend here in NJ. I find it a little disturbing that there are areas in NJ where some people obviously feel enough support for their racist views to advertise it. Of course, it as in Congressman Garretts district. I wonder if it might be worth mapping these sightings, even just on a township level, and somehow posting them. I would like to think that most communities don't support racism

At the risk of being THAT GUY, for what purpose??

ridski said:
At the risk of being THAT GUY

Too late.

Heinous though I may find it, it's protected expression. Mapping out the exact location of Confederate battle flags would probably only incite foolish behavior.

mrincredible said:

ridski said:
At the risk of being THAT GUY

Too late.
Heinous though I may find it, it's protected expression. Mapping out the exact location of Confederate battle flags would probably only incite foolish behavior.

Yes, your probably right. The question is when is ignoring blatant racism doing more harm than good

Where was everyone during the recent flap about this flag. The news media was insistent on (over) explaining that it is a Battle Flag, NOT
a racist symbol. It is a part of the Southern cultural heritage.
Anyone who would think that the flag is meant as a symbol of racism must
be mistaken.
So you never know, the flag needs to be prominently displayed and preserved because maybe the South will need to use the battle flag again sometime in the future. Anything could happen. Perish the thought of racism! No no no no no.

I spotted one at a home off of NJ-15 while off pumpkin picking out near Lafayette Township. I did scoff at them when I passed, but I'm not sure making a registry just to persecute people for unsavory beliefs would really result in much progress.

mrincredible said:

ridski said:
At the risk of being THAT GUY

Too late.
Heinous though I may find it, it's protected expression. Mapping out the exact location of Confederate battle flags would probably only incite foolish behavior.

Protected against what? Protected against the government, yes. Protected against peer pressure, the opinions of your neighbors, having a plain fact be public? Absolutely not.

tom said:

mrincredible said:

ridski said:
At the risk of being THAT GUY

Too late.
Heinous though I may find it, it's protected expression. Mapping out the exact location of Confederate battle flags would probably only incite foolish behavior.

Protected against what? Protected against the government, yes. Protected against peer pressure, the opinions of your neighbors, having a plain fact be public? Absolutely not.

If Confederate Flag = Definitely Racist and said flag was flying "proudly" as was mentioned in the OP, then that "plain fact" is already public, no?

Garrett, whose district most of these flags seem to be flying over, I feel promotes racism and bigotry of all kinds. And by the way, Garrett reportedly attends an evangelical church in Lafayette.Maybe the best way to answer the flags calling is to make sure Garrett is defeated next election.

tourne said:
Garrett, whose district most of these flags seem to be flying over, I feel promotes racism and bigotry of all kinds. And by the way, Garrett reportedly attends an evangelical church in Lafayette.Maybe the best way to answer the flags calling is to make sure Garrett is defeated next election.

Maybe you could start a blog called Racists of BFNJ with pictures of the racists and a little story.

tourne said:
Garrett, whose district most of these flags seem to be flying over, I feel promotes racism and bigotry of all kinds. And by the way, Garrett reportedly attends an evangelical church in Lafayette.Maybe the best way to answer the flags calling is to make sure Garrett is defeated next election.

And what does his churchgoing have to do with it?

Pro tip- when asserting someone is a bigot and racist, don't darkly mutter about his religion, or you may out yourself as....a bigot.

Maybe the guy is just really into Dukes of Hazzard.

Jackson_Fusion said:

tourne said:
Garrett, whose district most of these flags seem to be flying over, I feel promotes racism and bigotry of all kinds. And by the way, Garrett reportedly attends an evangelical church in Lafayette.Maybe the best way to answer the flags calling is to make sure Garrett is defeated next election.

And what does his churchgoing have to do with it?
Pro tip- when asserting someone is a bigot and racist, don't darkly mutter about his religion, or you may out yourself as....a bigot.

Go to the churches website. http://www.lfc.org Some of their highlighted goals are banning gay marriage, banning contraception and abortion, etc. Oh, and the belief that anything other than their interpretation of religion is wrong and subject to damnation.Some would call that bigoted. The reason I mentioned the church is because Lafayette is the town where another poster saw a Dixie flag displayed. I guess just coincidental. But it adds to the conversation

ridski said:

tourne said:
Garrett, whose district most of these flags seem to be flying over, I feel promotes racism and bigotry of all kinds. And by the way, Garrett reportedly attends an evangelical church in Lafayette.Maybe the best way to answer the flags calling is to make sure Garrett is defeated next election.

Maybe you could start a blog called Racists of BFNJ with pictures of the racists and a little story.

What is "BFNJ?

Except that, you know, there's no Southern heritage in New Jersey. Unless the people in those homes are actually from the South. And if they are that proud my hunch is they probably wouldn't have left, but that's making a huge assumption.

tourne said:

ridski said:

tourne said:
Garrett, whose district most of these flags seem to be flying over, I feel promotes racism and bigotry of all kinds. And by the way, Garrett reportedly attends an evangelical church in Lafayette.Maybe the best way to answer the flags calling is to make sure Garrett is defeated next election.

Maybe you could start a blog called Racists of BFNJ with pictures of the racists and a little story.

What is "BFNJ?

The New Jersey equivalent of Bum F**k, Egypt.

tourne said:

Go to the churches website. http://www.lfc.org Some of their highlighted goals are banning gay marriage, banning contraception and abortion, etc. Oh, and the belief that anything other than their interpretation of religion is wrong and subject to damnation.Some would call that bigoted.

Ask The Pope what he feels about those things. A couple of weeks ago he was headlining MSG, hanging with the President and speaking before congress.

Ban the sale of pickup trucks. The stars and bars are almost always on pickup trucks.

TarheelsInNj said:
Except that, you know, there's no Southern heritage in New Jersey. Unless the people in those homes are actually from the South. And if they are that proud my hunch is they probably wouldn't have left, but that's making a huge assumption.

If you allow that Southern "heritage" is a connection to, an affinity for or perhaps a dependence on slavery, than NJ has plenty of historical precedent. NJ was the last northern state to abolish slavery (1804) and actually held humans in bondage until 1846. When the Civil War began NJ still had a handful of slaves who were listed as "servants for life" on the census.

Southern "heritage" doesn't always come with a drawl nor is it necessarily "southern".

ridski said:

tourne said:

ridski said:

tourne said:
Garrett, whose district most of these flags seem to be flying over, I feel promotes racism and bigotry of all kinds. And by the way, Garrett reportedly attends an evangelical church in Lafayette.Maybe the best way to answer the flags calling is to make sure Garrett is defeated next election.

Maybe you could start a blog called Racists of BFNJ with pictures of the racists and a little story.

What is "BFNJ?

The New Jersey equivalent of Bum F**k, Egypt.

Northwest NJ is a very insular place. Whatever changes took place in NJ due to the railroads, the GW Bridge and the tunnels, etc., did not reach out there (until relatively recently). When I had to go out there for municipal hearings, we used an expression similar to Mr. Ridski's to describe where we were going.

South Jersey, south of the Turnpike and west of the GSP and the shore, is similar. Every time I go down there, I am amazed at how there is so much difference, such a relatively small distance away (compared to going across the U.S.).

That being said - NW New Jersey, and the area of South Jersey that I described, are still beautiful places, with farms and countryside and a lot of nice people.

flimbro said:

TarheelsInNj said:
Except that, you know, there's no Southern heritage in New Jersey. Unless the people in those homes are actually from the South. And if they are that proud my hunch is they probably wouldn't have left, but that's making a huge assumption.

If you allow that Southern "heritage" is a connection to, an affinity for or perhaps a dependence on slavery, than NJ has plenty of historical precedent. NJ was the last northern state to abolish slavery (1804) and actually held humans in bondage until 1846. When the Civil War began NJ still had a handful of slaves who were listed as "servants for life" on the census.
Southern "heritage" doesn't always come with a drawl nor is it necessarily "southern".

I guess. I'm more used to the distinction between who was on which side in the Civil War, in terms of who claims the Confederate flag. But yes, if you hold the flag as a symbol that slavery is awesome, your definition totally works here!

nohero said:

South Jersey, south of the Turnpike and west of the GSP and the shore, is similar. Every time I go down there, I am amazed at how there is so much difference, such a relatively small distance away (compared to going across the U.S.).

Um... Duh. Eagles fans.

Maybe real estate agents need to start selling Lafayette as Dixie North?

I'm in Western Morris Cty. There is a local message board here that makes me shake head when I read some of the posts. I return here (to MOL) to keep my sanity and faith that there are still humans that have similar views as myself

Jackson_Fusion said:

tourne said:
Garrett, whose district most of these flags seem to be flying over, I feel promotes racism and bigotry of all kinds. And by the way, Garrett reportedly attends an evangelical church in Lafayette.Maybe the best way to answer the flags calling is to make sure Garrett is defeated next election.

And what does his churchgoing have to do with it?
Pro tip- when asserting someone is a bigot and racist, don't darkly mutter about his religion, or you may out yourself as....a bigot.

What does who happens to represent a District in Congress have to do with it? There are about half a million people in each Congressional District and even in NJ which, I believe is the most densely populated State it covers a large geographical area. I have no doubt that there area lot of fine people in Garrett's District and a lot of jerks in this District

I suggest if the OP is in that area a lot he/she combat racism by having a "Black Lives Matter" bumper sticker or something similar.

And Cape May is below the Mason-Dixon Line.

A very good piece, worth reading to the end:

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/07/06/the-confederacys-final-retreat

LOST said:

Jackson_Fusion said:

tourne said:
Garrett, whose district most of these flags seem to be flying over, I feel promotes racism and bigotry of all kinds. And by the way, Garrett reportedly attends an evangelical church in Lafayette.Maybe the best way to answer the flags calling is to make sure Garrett is defeated next election.

And what does his churchgoing have to do with it?
Pro tip- when asserting someone is a bigot and racist, don't darkly mutter about his religion, or you may out yourself as....a bigot.

What does who happens to represent a District in Congress have to do with it? There are about half a million people in each Congressional District and even in NJ which, I believe is the most densely populated State it covers a large geographical area. I have no doubt that there area lot of fine people in Garrett's District and a lot of jerks in this District
I suggest if the OP is in that area a lot he/she combat racism by having a "Black Lives Matter" bumper sticker or something similar.


And Cape May is below the Mason-Dixon Line.

Well, the whole purpose of the thread wasn't to talk about a flag that probably doesn't even exist, let alone multiple flags, but to somehow slam the local, apparently not favored politician as a racist, which was done clumsily post after obvious post, begging for someone to jump on the haplessly lurching one man bandwagon.

Politics can be ugly, but does it have to be so crashingly crass and inelegant? Next time just tie the sentiment to the head of a sledgehammer and deliver the message that way. It'll be less obvious

Jackson_Fusion said:

LOST said:

Jackson_Fusion said:

tourne said:
Garrett, whose district most of these flags seem to be flying over, I feel promotes racism and bigotry of all kinds. And by the way, Garrett reportedly attends an evangelical church in Lafayette.Maybe the best way to answer the flags calling is to make sure Garrett is defeated next election.

And what does his churchgoing have to do with it?
Pro tip- when asserting someone is a bigot and racist, don't darkly mutter about his religion, or you may out yourself as....a bigot.

What does who happens to represent a District in Congress have to do with it? There are about half a million people in each Congressional District and even in NJ which, I believe is the most densely populated State it covers a large geographical area. I have no doubt that there area lot of fine people in Garrett's District and a lot of jerks in this District
I suggest if the OP is in that area a lot he/she combat racism by having a "Black Lives Matter" bumper sticker or something similar.


And Cape May is below the Mason-Dixon Line.

Well, the whole purpose of the thread wasn't to talk about a flag that probably doesn't even exist, let alone multiple flags, but to somehow slam the local, apparently not favored politician as a racist, which was done clumsily post after obvious post, begging for someone to jump on the haplessly lurching one man bandwagon.
Politics can be ugly, but does it have to be so crashingly crass and inelegant? Next time just tie the sentiment to the head of a sledgehammer and deliver the message that way. It'll be less obvious ">

The flags are very real and the fact that they fly in one of the most radical conservatives in Congress's district seems pertinent to me. I know that there are more Dixie flags out there, too. When Obama was first elected, the only cross burning occurred in Garretts district. Moreover, I don't think most people in that district would feel safe about putting a Black Lives Matter sticker on their car for fear it would be vandalized. That same fear of expression does not seem to apply to those flying the Dixie flag. Something about that just does not seem right and I wonder what can be done to affect change. People could advertise the location of Dixie flags and let the masses decide how to protest. Or maybe, a less volatile protest would just be to vote Garrett out which would send a message to those flag flyers in his district that maybe their neighbors don't all hold the same sentiments

Tom_Reingold said:
A very good piece, worth reading to the end:
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/07/06/the-confederacys-final-retreat

Thanks Tom

tourne said:

Jackson_Fusion said:

LOST said:

Jackson_Fusion said:

tourne said:
Garrett, whose district most of these flags seem to be flying over, I feel promotes racism and bigotry of all kinds. And by the way, Garrett reportedly attends an evangelical church in Lafayette.Maybe the best way to answer the flags calling is to make sure Garrett is defeated next election.

And what does his churchgoing have to do with it?
Pro tip- when asserting someone is a bigot and racist, don't darkly mutter about his religion, or you may out yourself as....a bigot.

What does who happens to represent a District in Congress have to do with it? There are about half a million people in each Congressional District and even in NJ which, I believe is the most densely populated State it covers a large geographical area. I have no doubt that there area lot of fine people in Garrett's District and a lot of jerks in this District
I suggest if the OP is in that area a lot he/she combat racism by having a "Black Lives Matter" bumper sticker or something similar.


And Cape May is below the Mason-Dixon Line.

Well, the whole purpose of the thread wasn't to talk about a flag that probably doesn't even exist, let alone multiple flags, but to somehow slam the local, apparently not favored politician as a racist, which was done clumsily post after obvious post, begging for someone to jump on the haplessly lurching one man bandwagon.
Politics can be ugly, but does it have to be so crashingly crass and inelegant? Next time just tie the sentiment to the head of a sledgehammer and deliver the message that way. It'll be less obvious ">

The flags are very real and the fact that they fly in one of the most radical conservatives in Congress's district seems pertinent to me. I know that there are more Dixie flags out there, too. When Obama was first elected, the only cross burning occurred in Garretts district. Moreover, I don't think most people in that district would feel safe about putting a Black Lives Matter sticker on their car for fear it would be vandalized. That same fear of expression does not seem to apply to those flying the Dixie flag. Something about that just does not seem right and I wonder what can be done to affect change. People could advertise the location of Dixie flags and let the masses decide how to protest. Or maybe, a less volatile protest would just be to vote Garrett out which would send a message to those flag flyers in his district that maybe their neighbors don't all hold the same sentiments

So you're agitating to put out a map of the homes of people who allegedly fly the Confederate flag but people in northern NJ are afraid to put "black lives matter" stickers on their car because you SUSPECT they would get keyed at the super market, and all of this is the local congressperson from not your favored party' fault?

Do I have that right? You're worried about imaginary people with imaginary stickers getting their imaginary cars messed with, but you're willing to put together a map of the homes of families that (allegedly) fly the confederate flag? And what would one hope people would do with such a map?

Why, "Let the masses" come to their homes, you suggest, where they live with their families! To what,teach them a lesson?

What lesson do incited mobs usually teach? Ethics? Debate 101? No?

Oh that's right, the usual lesson of intimidation and fear.

You've accused a guy of being a bigot because of his religion and lamented the lack of people's ability to safely express themselves because of the beliefs of their neighbors, whom you have suggested putting on a map to identity where they live online so "the masses" can pay them a visit.

You may want to think those propositions through. Then again, you may not.