Bloomberg vs Trump. Who's worse?

Bloomberg is trying to buy the nomination. Pure and simple.

That can't possibly be a good thing for democracy.

What would be more damaging? 4 more years of Trump? or x years of Bloomberg?

Plus, the guy's on an apology tour, renouncing some of the policies that defined his mayoralty.

His election would push the cause of progressivism back 50 years. Even if you're a "moderate", that can't be happy news.

And he's clearly a racist, despite how he might try to hide it.

He's just bad news - every which way.

Go away.


Personally I think Trump is worse by  country mile. Four more year of Trump would be infinitely worse than eight years of Bloomberg. 

At least two more Supreme Court appointments and heaven knows how many federal court appointments fast tracked by Mitch to remake the judiciary into Trump's personal legal stamp of approval department.

More environmental deregulation.

More complicity with foreign interference with our democracy. I say complicity instead of active participation but the Trump administration "do-nothing" policy is almost as bad as actively working with Russia.

More cuts to critical government agencies ... the CDC budget has been reduced for the last couple of years and they're proposing more cuts during a potential worldwide outbreak of a new dangerous virus.

I'm sure other people can come up with more. 

I'm not a fan of Bloomberg as a candidate but saying he'd be as bad as Trump shows a lack of perspective. 


you have no idea what kind of judges Bloomberg will appoint , number one. But my guess he will appoint guys who are very corporate and Wall Street leaning, but maybe kinda socially progressive.

Bernie summarizes Bloomberg well here:



The point is that they would both be disasters, but in different ways. I think Bloomberg would deeply damage the Democratic Party in ways that Trump would not. 


Big difference in their SCOTUS picks. Trump will be the first President to attend the right to life rally  this year, following Pence who was the first VP to attend the last one.

Trump could replace a liberal judge, and there is the opportunity to persuade an older Clarence Thomas to retire and replace him with a younger anti Roe v Wade judge.

The court will be hearing a case this year.

In a panel discussion on Roe, 3 representatives, pro choice, anti abortion and a historian, all agree that they believe Roe will be overturned. The pro choice attorney from the Planned Parenthood v Casey, case, believes it is foolish to assume it will go back to the states, that the goal is to criminalize as a few of the states have.

I know I harp on this but there are states with only one clinic and in Missouri there has been a fight to close that down.

I'll vote for any Dem we wind up with.


drummerboy said:

The point is that they would both be disasters, but in different ways. I think Bloomberg would deeply damage the Democratic Party in ways that Trump would not. 

I already wrote this in another thread. Nominating Bloomberg could kill the Democratic Party or at the very least turn it into the old Republican Party of Kean and Rockefeller. I can't see all the women and young people who have been organizing and volunteering across the country for the past three years not being demoralized if a billionaire buys his way into the nomination. 
I've also written that in the end I don't think he can beat Trump. All the things that are horrible about Trump are things that the Donald can turn back on Bloomberg  -- narcissistic, authoritarian, racist, misogynist. And what's the response? Yes, but Trump is a lot worse? Hardly a strategy to feel confident about. 


If Bloomberg is the nominee I will happily vote for him.  In this case the devil I know is just too ____________ (fill in your adjective of choice). 


Red_Barchetta said:

If Bloomberg is the nominee I will happily vote for him.  In this case the devil I know is just too ____________ (fill in your adjective of choice). 

 I will certainly vote for him. But not happily. 


Ridiculous question. Trump is far and away the worst.


Not even a question. Is there anyone worse than Trump? If we survived under Trump this long we will be better off with Bloomberg. 


there's no doubt who is a worse person.  It's Trump by a mile.  The question is more about what would be worse in the long term for this country.  What is worse, a narcissistic, authoritarian, but incompetent buffoon like Trump, or a competent authoritarian like Bloomberg, especially if he can follow the precedents set by Trump?  Trump's fascist push forward over the past few weeks has been disturbing, but his wild flailing and cartoonish crime boss methods make it easy for people to see what he's doing.  What would a less flamboyant but much more competent autocrat be able to accomplish?  I think it's a question that should be pondered carefully.


What might he accomplish? 

Has he given any indication that he is a bad actor?  His causes are Democratic causes.  Has he mis-stepped, sometimes badly - Yes. Has he seemed to learn - I think so.

The fact that this is even being pondered as a question is shocking to me!

Trump is a "billionaire" who has stolen from his own charity.  Bloomberg is a Billionaire who has supported gun control and womens' rights and Democratic candidates.

Really?  This is a question to be considered seriously?


jimmurphy said:

What might he accomplish? 

Has he given any indication that he is a bad actor? 

....

You clearly have not been paying attention.


drummerboy said:

You clearly have not been paying attention.

 Vehemently disagree.


drummerboy said:

You clearly have not been paying attention.

 Enlighten us.   

Clearly he has some possible racism and misogyny in his past.   Isn’t it possible that he has changed and will act in favor of minorities and women?   Isn’t he already doing that?


ETA:  I think that you have asked the group this question shows that you’re the one who hasn’t been paying attention.  


1. It's a good question.

2. No one is worse than Trump because the re-election of Trump could mean no more elections.

I was toying with the question and was glad to see db ask it. I have more to add but do not have time right now.


Bloomberg's health care plan. Let old people die.


I stand by my position that the question is ridiculous.

Multiple Rapes > unequal treatment 

Blatant Racism > stop and frisk + ending the policy and an apology.

Stealing from charities, enriching oneself at every turn > giving to worthy causes.

Fine if you don’t support Bloomberg over Bernie or Liz or whoever. But please don’t compare him to Trump, the most despicable person of my lifetime.




Re: thread title (and no, i haven't read the thread yet)

If you have to ask, you haven't been paying attention.

sincerely,

mjc

eta, having read the thread so far:  what ml1 says bears thinking about, but still....

Bloomberg is definitely on the side of the angels *now* with regard to gun control, stop-and-frisk, women's rights, campaigning against 45 even if he (MB) is not nominated, etc., so there's that.  Will have to hear more about foreign policy views, judicial appointments, etc.  He's not my first choice (I'm still hoping for Warren tbh), but i would not have any problem voting for him, as far as i know now.


Red_Barchetta said:

drummerboy said:

You clearly have not been paying attention.

 Enlighten us.   

Clearly he has some possible racism and misogyny in his past.   Isn’t it possible that he has changed and will act in favor of minorities and women?   Isn’t he already doing that?


ETA:  I think that you have asked the group this question shows that you’re the one who hasn’t been paying attention.  

 the racism and misogyny is not a "possible" part of his past. It is a part of him.

Do you remember when he set up preventive detention for the Republican Convention in 2004? He arrested 2000 people for no reason. Just for protesting. No charges were ever brought against them. Can you be more authoritarian?

He blames the 2008 crash on the the weakening of red line restrictions. (i.e. the blacks caused it)

His support for gun control is meaningless to me, because there is no gun control measure on the planet, short of mandatory gun buybacks, that will cure us of our gun disease.

He doesn't believe in raising the minimum wage.

He hates unions.

He will let Wall Street do whatever the eff they want, and more.

Will he roll back the 2017 tax cut? And increase taxes on the wealthy? And corporations? 

What part of him, exactly, is a Democrat? Climate change? OK. What else? Yes, he's socially kind of "liberal", but we need a lot more than that, especially on the economic front.

People who think he would be a substantial improvement over Trump are dismissing these differences too quickly.

The mere fact that he's trying buy the nomination should be enough to disqualify him by every potential Dem voter.


jimmurphy said:

I stand by my position that the question is ridiculous.

Multiple Rapes > unequal treatment 

Blatant Racism > stop and frisk + ending the policy and an apology.

Stealing from charities, enriching oneself at every turn > giving to worthy causes.

Fine if you don’t support Bloomberg over Bernie or Liz or whoever. But please don’t compare him to Trump, the most despicable person of my lifetime.



on the racism front, I hate to tell you this, but Bloomberg has done far more material damage to the lives of minority youth than Trump can ever do in his wildest dreams.

So you might want to rethink that comparison there.

Anyway, the point is not to compare the two on piecemeal basis. Bloomberg represents a different kind of threat than Trump, but a threat nonetheless. He will render the Democratic party meaningless.


Trump is far worse at every single one of the items you list.  


drummerboy said:

on the racism front, I hate to tell you this, but Bloomberg has done far more material damage to the lives of minority youth than Trump can ever do in his wildest dreams.

So you might want to rethink that comparison there.

Anyway, the point is not to compare the two on piecemeal basis. Bloomberg represents a different kind of threat than Trump, but a threat nonetheless. He will render the Democratic party meaningless.

 The comparison is delusional. 


drummerboy said:

Bloomberg's health care plan. Let old people die.

I saw that. A horrible thing to say.

Someone is 95 so we're not supposed to save them? Why not go further and not save the 80 year old? What determines a cutoff point? A formula to calculate an ROI factoring age, cost, cure success rate? 

Bloomberg's a technician. He favors ROI formulas. But for peoples lives?


you folks need to open your eyes about Bloomberg. He would be a disaster. By far the worst Dem candidate. Worse than Tulsi. And I don't say that lightly.

And we haven't even gotten into his foreign policy, which is probably worse that Trump's. Unquestioning support for Israel. Against the Iran Treaty. Supported the Iraq War and the idea that Saddam was involved in 9/11.


So you're saying if it's Bloomberg vs. Trump, you're voting Trump?


Red_Barchetta said:

So you're saying if it's Bloomberg vs. Trump, you're voting Trump?

I said no such thing. But I'll tell you, I'd actually have to think about it. Luckily, I don't think it will come down to that.

meanwhile, here's more of Bloomberg's imbecility. Say goodbye to the farm vote Mikey.


Here's the thing - Trump as President scares me. Bloomberg as President scares me.

I mean, I'm all for voting for the lesser evil, but Mikey's making it hard to figure out which is which.


drummerboy said:

meanwhile, here's more of Bloomberg's imbecility. Say goodbye to the farm vote Mikey.

Even I have enough gray matter to understand that Bloomberg wasn’t talking about modern farming when he mentioned farmers — that he was talking in sweeping terms about the Age of Agriculture and the Information Age (of which modern farming is a part).  

Keep those tweets that appeal to you coming, DB. They increase my gratitude for the more thoughtful material that comes my way.


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