A&P (Pathmark) circling the drain?

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-06-18/a-p-is-said-to-consider-second-bankruptcy-filing-in-five-years

This would suck as Pathmark is by far the most convenient grocery store for us and has improved of late.

The Pathmark store on Valley is well placed. It has adequate parking and a long history of serving both an urban and suburban community. It is a valued commodity. Chances are it will be plucked up by someone and continue as a good local supermarket.

Agree with author. Not only is that store in good physical condition as well, it's also of sufficient size to continue as a modern supermarket. The former A&P, even if it didn't have a larger A&P owned neighbor, almost certainly would have closed due to its size. The smaller Morristown store closed in 20014, and has re-opened as a 19,000 SF Whole Foods.

http://acmestyleblog.blogspot.com/2010/09/maplewood-nj.html

http://morristowngreen.com/2015/04/20/sneak-peek-inside-morristowns-new-whole-foods-market/

This was an odd choice for WF at the time, though they're now attempting to get millennials into their stores by rolling smaller, lower cost locations. Morristown has the small thing, but not the lower prices.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kathleenkusek/2015/05/07/targeting-millennials-whole-foods-market-to-launch-brand-x/

As author says, the profitable Pathmarks, of which I have to think SO is one, will certainly get snapped up by a chain that can still eke out a profit in this razor thin margin business. A&P messed up back in the 50s by not expanding into suburbs aggressively, then were stuck with unprofitable locations spanning coast to coast. They've been in a death spiral ever since, and buying another troubled chain seemed an odd way to return to profitability. I've long since mourned the passing of Walbaum's, the supermarket of my youth that's been reduced to A&Ps with a longer name now only on Long Island. When A&P finally kicks the bucket, the name that defined supermarket will pass, along with two of our area's most storied chains.

Really nice elegy for Pathmark, dk50b - it's funny what tugs at our hearts As a nearby resident, though, I'd be happy to get in a fresher version of the supermarket.

Rivoli said:
Really nice elegy for Pathmark, dk50b - it's funny what tugs at our hearts As a nearby resident, though, I'd be happy to get in a fresher version of the supermarket.

I'm worried they would remove the "soul food" counter in the back. It's absolutely remarkable.

Shoprite would be a good alternative. Already have stores in the area for distribution, but not too nearby. Pathmark has high prices in many cases but strong sales due to general lack of competition.

+1 for a Shop Rite

Shop Rite stores are individually owned...........not corporate. Billy Sumas owned the one in South Orange forever. Maybe some one will be interested

At one point (around 20 years ago?), ShopRite wanted to build a new modern store on Third Street, to replace the small on on SOA. However they couldn't get approval from the BOT, perhaps because our then-Village-President didn't want another competing pharmacy in town (or so the gossip goes). So Gaslight Commons went on that site (previously an auto dealership, I think)

If Pathmark doesn't survive, I'd love to see ShopRite take on their site.

The gaslight commons site seems like an awful site for a large grocery store. The giant delivery trucks would have to squeeze under the train tracks or go via ridgewood - plus thst site is kind of off the beaten path for a store

It was before my time, so I don't know how they were planning to handle that...there may have been many reasons to reject the plan.

susan1014 said:
At one point (around 20 years ago?), ShopRite wanted to build a new modern store on Third Street, to replace the small on on SOA. However they couldn't get approval from the BOT, perhaps because our then-Village-President didn't want another competing pharmacy in town (or so the gossip goes). So Gaslight Commons went on that site (previously an auto dealership, I think)
If Pathmark doesn't survive, I'd love to see ShopRite take on their site.

So would I. But would that not spell trouble (if not outright doom) for Ashley?

ShopRite is the same class of store as PathMark (albeit 'better' to most of us), while Ashley is really quite different. I don't really see that it would be that big an impact

I think the current Pathmark and any new ShopRite would be worlds apart.

Thanks Rivoli, as you see I have a real retail and supermarket fixation. On that note, I recently came across a fabulous blog about retro stuff in our area. Great page dedicated to the Pathmark Guy, who was actually actor James Karen.

http://rolandopujol.tumblr.com/post/28716184481/taking-a-trip-down-the-supermarket-memory-aisle

Had no clue he was anything but the Pathmark Guy till I saw Poltergeist. Didn't see him on Lou Grant, but seems playing evil developers was a specialty.

As for ShopRite taking over Pathmark, I think that ship sailed. Those recalling Village Super Market wanting to build a new store on 3rd St are right. And yes, Calabrese worked to discourage approval to protect his pharmacy, and was helped along by a healthy dose of fear and opposition to residents of adjacent cities coming here to shop.

Bee, the site is actually one of the best around for a modern supermarket. It would have fit the 60,000 SF minimum most chains look for at new locations. As for truck access, that would have quite easy with plenty of room for access roads. As for getting past the railroad, if a tractor trailer or large panel truck tried to "squeeze" under any of those bridges, they'd get an instant sunroof, as happens all too often. Since those trucks do make deliveries on both sides of the tracks every day, they use the bridges that go over the tracks. To get an idea of what we missed, the West Orange SR is probably close. As for what Village now builds, here's their best recent effort.

In term of sac's take on class, I think SR's in a class by itself in our area. With a few exceptions like Millburn, their stores are large, stock a wide variety of products, many more than Pathmark, A&P or Stop & Shop, usually clean, and their prices are consistently lower than all other chains.

Yeah, but nobody can beat Pathmark's fried chicken.

The Pathmark site would be great for a two story supermarket opening onto the street and the parking lot.

Or a giant gym with a pool or two..... one can dream...

dk50b, Thanks for the education. There was a Waldbaums where I grew up in Little Neck Queens and I worked there eons ago at a time when one had to know prices and math (4 for 2.00) if the items weren't marked. No computers, scanners, etc. in the 60's.

Thanks for the great analysis about Shoprite. Question about your Shoprite analysis (used to be my go to store and now I just use it to supplement what I can't get at Trader Joe's): I understand what you're saying about expanding and other locations but I hope that with its new operating company they may want to consider the Pathmark site given that the Millburn store is so small and so many of the Millburn shoppers come from Maplewood and parts of South Orange (particularly that part of S.O. furthest from West Orange which can be difficult to get to in any event). There is also the high school community as well as the increased shoppers from the new CVS.

Our area is basically the "territory" of Village Super Markets for Shop Rite. With the new super store on 22, I doubt they would want to locate where the Pathmark is, unless they would want to close the small and antiquated Millburn location for a larger store where Pathmark is now.

Stop and Shop has been trying to get a location at the old Saks site in Springfield but has had many obstacles. Maybe they would be interested in the Pathmark site. Or, and it may be a bit larger for them, Aldi.

kthnry said:
Yeah, but nobody can beat Pathmark's fried chicken.

I'll give you that. Except Church's of course.

I'd be happy if they just re-paved the pot holed lo

dk50b said: In term of sac's take on class, I think SR's in a class by itself in our area. With a few exceptions like Millburn, their stores are large, stock a wide variety of products, many more than Pathmark, A&P or Stop & Shop, usually clean, and their prices are consistently lower than all other chains.

I don't think I made myself clear (although I did say that many of us consider SR better.) I really meant the market niche and where shoppers go for particular types of shopping. I think that Pathmark, Stop & Shop and ShopRite are all in generally the same (general large supermarket) niche, while Whole Foods, Ashley, Maplewood Kings, Trader Joes and others are not. I am just doubtful that you would suddenly see hordes of Ashley shoppers taking their business to a ShopRite on the PathMark site. I suppose I could be wrong. OTOH, I would probably go there a lot. Much as I like the Millburn ShopRite, it is small and not as close to where I live as Pathmark.

I only go to Ashley occasionally, partly because it is farther away from me (in "middle Maplewood") and partly because they just don't have the selection of staples that I'm often looking for when I go to the grocery store. For me it competes more with Whole Foods, but the next door Target and easier parking gets me to those stores more often than to Ashley.

YMMV

All of the Pathmark stores have been on the market for more than a year. The starting posture was that one buyer was sought for all locations. That was never going to happen so the new position is to sell as many stores as possible to the fewest buyers. The primary contenders are Stop & Shop (Royal Ahold) and Wakerfern Food Corporation meaning that the South Orange Pathmark will either be a Stop and Shop or Shop Rite. The Wakefern member which would be eligible to take the location would be Village Supermarket, Inc. and it would probably be pleased to be back in South Orange.

ramzzoinksus said:
Our area is basically the "territory" of Village Super Markets for Shop Rite. With the new super store on 22, I doubt they would want to locate where the Pathmark is, unless they would want to close the small and antiquated Millburn location for a larger store where Pathmark is now.
Stop and Shop has been trying to get a location at the old Saks site in Springfield but has had many obstacles. Maybe they would be interested in the Pathmark site. Or, and it may be a bit larger for them, Aldi.

"Territory" was the word I was looking for. Thanks for that clarification. My guess is Millburn's another Mwood Kings situation, where a small store produces high profits. It might be the smallest most outdated store VSM operates, but I still don't see then snapping up Pathmark. truth, I'm not so sure the Sumas family has any desire to return to SO.

The Springfield Stop & Shop is a textbook case of municipalities bowing to community pressure to twist zoning laws to prevent property owners from doing what's already permissible. At this point, Ahold isn't going down without a fight, having bought the property in 1994 and has been paying property taxes since. Add to that the money going to plans, experts, and multiple lawsuits and they must be well onto the multi millions. That's money that would've payed for SO.

S&S may not have realized just how difficult it would be to reopen on a site where a 253,000 SF store is allowed as of right. The planned supermarket has been reduced 20,000 SF to 64,000 SF. It'll be smaller than the former Saks. The biggest problem is truck access, which logically should be from Morris Ave. Unfortunately there's a noise ordinance covering the neighborhood behind the site, leading DOT to deny using Morris for deliveries. The Millburn Ave exit will be signalized, but Millburn has yet to approve. My usual long story is meant to show Ahold has too much invested to walk, and couldn't take on a SO store.

As for Ahold buying Pathmark, they tried that in 1999, but that was rejected by the FTC as Ahold already had the most stores on the east coast and adding Pathmark would've given them too much of the market. Things might change with A&P exiting the business after 155 years, but there's a history going against Ahold buying Pathmark or A&P. Wakefern might run into similar issues, being the biggest chain and private employer in NJ.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB945359910891690308

Ahold never appealed Milburn's turning down their application. So it looks like they may be going down without a fight. Millburn's action was awhile ago so it may be too late to appeal.

Village Supermarkets was the money behind the actions to stop Ahold.

ramzzoinksus said:
Ahold never appealed Milburn's turning down their application. So it looks like they may be going down without a fight. Millburn's action was awhile ago so it may be too late to appeal.
Village Supermarkets was the money behind the actions to stop Ahold.

I did notice nothing's happened since the ZBA denied the variance in February 2014. After what they've been through, I imagine the property's commercial value has plummeted.

It's noteworty Kings sued along with VSM against Ahold. Ahold has also sued VSM to delay the ShopRite of Greater Morristown and in Bergen County.

http://www.northjersey.com/mobile/news/business/grocers-battle-to-protect-their-turf-1.743477

When it comes being suit happy, VSM wins hands down, as they've been using the courts to forestall competition for many years. After Wegmans announced it was going into a new center in Hanover Twp., where their new Morristown store is located, VSM followed up with a series of lawsuits claiming the township and the state DEP didn't follow the rules. A mere 3 years after the lease was announced, Wegmans broke ground, though the lawsuits continue.

Over the years, VSM has spent millions, and cost taxpayers as much, by using the courts the preserve their market share. I don't think VSM has ever had the court find for them, though Springfield S&S may die from endless Iocal resistance. Ah, the effiency of the free market!

While the commercial value has certainly declined if the Millburn ruling stands, the trend making residential living in walking distance to mass transit and stores much in demand has increased the value of the site as residential if so converted.

Sybil said:
While the commercial value has certainly declined if the Millburn ruling stands, the trend making residential living in walking distance to mass transit and stores much in demand has increased the value of the site as residential if so converted.

That's probably the case. On the other hand, commercial property pays a much higher rate than any form of residential. And if this parcel loses its ability to developed commercially, Millburn has removed a large commercial ratable from Springfield's tax rolls.

Which is why it is strange that Springfield initially turned down Ahold, before being forced to approve by a judge. A very strange history indeed. The way Alohd has handled it has seemed bizarre. At times they fought vigorously and then they would go years and take no action. Today Ahold announced a merger which is likely to keep the company occupied for a while and limit its willingness to make commitments. Site may continue to sit unused for quite a while longer.