DUMP TRUMP (previously 2020 candidates)
galileo said:
Trump is starting to say too many upsetting things and the public can't take any more. Heard a call-in this morning which I think is going to be typical. He was a former Republican who recently withdrew from the party. Not sure who he will vote for but liked Biden.
He'll come back to Trump when he hears about how Biden will put an aborted fetus in every pot. They always do.
nan said:
What do you know about my social media feeds except for MOL? Please let me know the details. I look forward to hearing.
I know — because you referred to “here,” “Facebook” and ”twitter” — that your social media feeds are social media. So I’ll rephrase: Believe it or not, there’s a lot of America that doesn’t show up in anyone’s social media feeds. (Social media researchers included.)
jamie said:
ok, so no one can point to a video that proves their point - they only take his gaffes. And where do his staffers say he's in mental decline and/or lucid?
My mistake - not his staff, but many of his allies.
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/457486-biden-allies-float-scaling-back-events-to-limit-gaffes
fact is, most of America isn't paying to any of this at all. A big proportion won't even pay attention until after Labor Day of next year. That's why it's silly to get too crazy over polls that are being taken now. Pollsters can ask questions, and they can calculate margins of errors and look at trends, and the numbers are what they are. But even a validly conducted poll doesn't mean much if the respondents aren't really paying attention to who the candidates are. Right now, a lot of what we're seeing in the polls is a reflection of name recognition. In a recent YouGov poll, Biden and Sanders have the highest recognition.
Biden's lead can certainly hold up, especially because leading in the polls can be a self-fulfilling phenomenon. Joe apparently thinks so, because his new ad features his poll numbers prominently. He's counting on people thinking he's the only one who can defeat Trump, because the rest of his message is pretty light on policy substance. It does appear that even Joe himself is acknowledging that people aren't going to be excited about his policy ideas.
People may be traumatized enough by the Trump presidency that Biden can get the nomination by making people fear that none of the other Democrats can win. It seems like that's his bet.
Klinker said:
He'll come back to Trump when he hears about how Biden will put an aborted fetus in every pot. They always do.
I'm very skeptical that these supposedly fed up Republicans will vote for any of the Democrats, including Biden.
Klinker said:
Then again, this is a guy who couldn't complete his education without resorting to plagiarism.
Republican talking point.
We do that so well. For 30 years the Right lied about Hillary Clinton and finally many on the Left believed the lies.
Hillary Clinton won the popular vote by 3 million. Trump won the Electoral College by winning a handful of votes in three States. Are there any Hillary Clinton voters who are going to switch to Trump? Are there Hillary Clinton voters who will stay home and let Trump be re-elected rather than vote for a Dem they don't like?
Every candidate has a chance of winning and every candidate has a chance of losing. And the candidate I support is the only one who suggested that Trump might not even be on the ballot in 2020. And I believe she said that before Author did.
ml1 said:
I'm very skeptical that these supposedly fed up Republicans will vote for any of the Democrats, including Biden.
I agree but given how Trump won only a small number may be needed.
DaveSchmidt said:
I know — because you referred to “here,” “Facebook” and ”twitter” — that your social media feeds are social media. So I’ll rephrase: Believe it or not, there’s a lot of America that doesn’t show up in anyone’s social media feeds. (Social media researchers included.)
Yes, but that was true in 2016 also. The other leading candidates are all well represented on social media. Don't you think it is strange that Biden is not? There should be at least some Biden supporters who use social media. Is social media use so small overall that there are enough people who don't use it to elect Biden?
nan said:
Yes, but that was true in 2016 also. The other leading candidates are all well represented on social media. Don't you think it is strange that Biden is not? There should be at least some Biden supporters who use social media. Is social media use so small overall that there are enough people who don't use it to elect Biden?
My hunch — and it’s only a hunch — is that there are Americans who use social media without beating a drum on it for their favorite candidate, especially this early.
I’m not in a spot right now where I can listen to the Tracy video without disturbing others. I’ll try to view it later and see if I agree that he convincingly shows that social media is a pro-Biden wasteland.
STANV said:
Klinker said:
Then again, this is a guy who couldn't complete his education without resorting to plagiarism.
Republican talking point.
We do that so well. For 30 years the Right lied about Hillary Clinton and finally many on the Left believed the lies.
Just because it is a Republican talking point doesn't mean it isn't true. Biden's lifelong history of plagiarism is well documented. The original case against him on the issue was made by the Dukakis campaign.
The truth is that Joe Biden's whole biography is just a series of Republican talking points. Its as if someone put together a Frankenstein's monster of gaffes, flubs, lies and brain farts for the sole purpose of bringing joy to Republican strategists.
DaveSchmidt said:
My hunch — and it’s only a hunch — is that there are Americans who use social media without beating a drum on it for their favorite candidate, especially this early.
I’m not in a spot right now where I can listen to the Tracy video without disturbing others. I’ll try to view it later and see if I agree that he convincingly shows that social media is a pro-Biden wasteland.
OK, you might be right. But, I still think it is strange that the number one candidate does not have much enthusiasm on-line. I see lots of people for Bernie, LIz, Tulsi, Kamala, Pete & Yang. I occasionally see support for Booker and Castro, and there was tons of support for Beto, but that has faded. Then there are the rest and Biden that I don't see anything on, but maybe I'm not looking close enough. That is possible. I will try to look some more.
ml1 said:
People may be traumatized enough by the Trump presidency that Biden can get the nomination by making people fear that none of the other Democrats can win. It seems like that's his bet.
I think this is what they are counting on. Jill Biden spoke at an event in New Hampshire and said that even if you like someone else's healthcare plan, "You have to swallow it and vote for my husband because the most important thing is beating Trump." I don't see how this "you have to swallow it" approach will get people excited enough to vote.
nan said:
OK, you might be right. But, I still think it is strange that the number one candidate does not have much enthusiasm on-line. I see lots of people for Bernie, LIz, Tulsi, Kamala, Pete & Yang. I occasionally see support for Booker and Castro, and there was tons of support for Beto, but that has faded. Then there are the rest and Biden that I don't see anything on, but maybe I'm not looking close enough. That is possible. I will try to look some more.
Michael “Maybe I Live in a Bubble” Tracey starts out by contrasting the intensity of the Twitter wars during the 2016 Democratic primary cycle with this cycle’s. Two big differences: One, which I’ve noted, is that it’s early. Who was all riled up in August 2015? Even the first debate was still two months away. Second, it was only a three-candidate race, and down to two pretty quickly. That by itself intensifies the back-and-forth.
Where Tracey really shows his “bubble”-headedness, though, is when he wonders why “there’s nobody to brawl with” on Twitter “if you want to throw down with Biden supporters.” In other words, supporters of the candidate whose campaign theme is an appeal to Americans’ better natures seem to be avoiding Twitter brawls, and Tracey doesn’t understand why.
Maybe Tracey, if he was really interested in or equipped to explore his own hypothesis, later asked himself if it’s so surprising that a front-running campaign counting on a national desire for calmer times, or its allies, would be loath to enter social media wars at this stage, but I stopped watching.
Even Joe Biden's Campaign Can't Think of a Good Reason to Vote for Joe Biden
nan said:
Even Joe Biden's Campaign Can't Think of a Good Reason to Vote for Joe Biden
If that remains the Biden message, and it’s as uninspiring to Democratic primary voters as its critics make it out to be, what are you worried about?
And if the measure of a candidate’s support is social media tenacity — same question.
DaveSchmidt said:
Michael “Maybe I Live in a Bubble” Tracey starts out by contrasting the intensity of the Twitter wars during the 2016 Democratic primary cycle with this cycle’s. Two big differences: One, which I’ve already noted, is that it’s early. Who was all riled up in August 2015? Even the first debate was still two months away. Second, it was only a three-candidate race, and down to two pretty quickly. That by itself intensifies the back-and-forth.
Where Tracey really shows his “bubble”-headedness, though, is when he wonders why “there’s nobody to brawl with” on Twitter “if you want to throw down with Biden supporters.” In other words, supporters of the candidate whose campaign theme is an appeal to Americans’ better natures seem to be avoiding Twitter brawls, and Tracey doesn’t understand why.
Maybe Tracey, if he was really interested in or equipped to explore his own hypothesis, later asked if it’s so surprising that a front-running campaign counting on a public desire for calmer times, or its allies, would be loath to enter social media wars at this stage, but I stopped watching.
I think you misunderstand what he was saying. Tracey equates twitter brawls with enthusiasm for a candidate. Who is going to argue endlessly with people on social media unless they are excited about their candidate and maybe even campaigning for them? So, based on that he does not see the enthusiasm for Biden and he feels enthusiasm is essential to get people out to vote.
You seem to have a theory that it is too early, although I've been "brawling about Bernie" since at least last January, and enough time has passed for Beto brawling to come and go. You also seem to feel that the Biden fans are looking for a "calmer times" so they don't want to fight. Is it also possible that they don't feel they have anything to fight with when even Biden's wife says others have better ideas and policies? They can say Biden is the front runner, but that might not be enough. Also, if they feel that "calm," they may end up changing to another candidate down the road, maybe?
nan said:
Tracey equates twitter brawls with enthusiasm for a candidate.
I understood that. I think it’s dumb. You could even say my judgment of its dumbness is an enthusiastic one. But I’m not going to argue with him about it on Twitter.
You also seem to feel that the Biden fans are looking for a "calmer times" so they don't want to fight. Is it also possible that they don't feel they have anything to fight with when even Biden's wife says others have better ideas and policies?
It’s possible, but I think a lot less likely than the possibility that they, like many, many Americans, don’t give a damn about fighting over politics on social media (Twitter especially).
And if it really is because they’re cowed, so what? Either they’ll look for something better, which is good news for you, or they’ll continue to slink all the way into a polling booth and cast their secret ballot for Biden, which is their right.
nan said:
I think you misunderstand what he was saying. Tracey equates twitter brawls with enthusiasm for a candidate. Who is going to argue endlessly with people on social media unless they are excited about their candidate and maybe even campaigning for them? So, based on that he does not see the enthusiasm for Biden and he feels enthusiasm is essential to get people out to vote.
Do you leave room for the possibility that people who might support a moderate do not trawl the internet for hours on end to watch fringe videos or post on Twitter, nevermind brawl? (edited to add: forgot the ?)
The extreme left and the extreme right tend to be more passionate, and more willing to devote much more time to these activities. Doesn't mean that they are an indicator 15 months before an election.
jimmurphy said:
Do you leave room for the possibility that people who might support a moderate do not trawl the internet for hours on end to watch fringe videos or post on Twitter, nevermind brawl? (edited to add: forgot the ?)
The extreme left and the extreme right tend to be more passionate, and more willing to devote much more time to these activities. Doesn't mean that they are an indicator 15 months before an election.
Well said
regardless, it's not a good sign if a candidate isn't generating enthusiasm. I remember telling people in 2016 when Clinton was running against Sanders that her slogan should be "Clinton 2016: Don't Get Your Hopes Up." Unfortunately that was a big part of the reason she lost. Very few people were super excited about her candidacy. Certainly nothing like Trump's neo-Nuremberg rallies. Or even like Obama in '08.
It's still early, so maybe Biden will start generating some joe-mentum. I sure hope someone does. To win in '20 the candidate who wins is going to have to generate some kind of enthusiasm.
Dennis_Seelbach said:
Inslee just dropped out.
hopefully he's the next head of the EPA
Dennis_Seelbach said:
Inslee just dropped out.
I do hope that someone picks up the climate change issue as strongly as he carried it.
DaveSchmidt said:
It’s possible, but I think a lot less likely than the possibility that they, like many, many Americans, don’t give a damn about fighting over politics on social media (Twitter especially).
And if it really is because they’re cowed, so what? Either they’ll look for something better, which is good news for you, or they’ll continue to slink all the way into a polling booth and cast their secret ballot for Biden, which is their right.
I agree that many, many Americans don't give a damn about fighting over politics on social media. I am guessing that might be a majority of people. However, when high polling candidates such as Sanders and Warren have a huge number of people arguing about them online, you have to wonder why the highest polling candidate does not have similar.
nan said:
I agree that many, many Americans don't give a damn about fighting over politics on social media. I am guessing that might be a majority of people. However, when high polling candidates such as Sanders and Warren have a huge number of people arguing about them online, you have to wonder why the highest polling candidate does not have similar.
Not really.
jimmurphy said:
Do you leave room for the possibility that people who might support a moderate do not trawl the internet for hours on end to watch fringe videos or post on Twitter, nevermind brawl? (edited to add: forgot the ?)
The extreme left and the extreme right tend to be more passionate, and more willing to devote much more time to these activities. Doesn't mean that they are an indicator 15 months before an election.
That's possible, but Hillary was a moderate and there were huge arguments about her online and some of them are still going on. Many Hillary supporters have morphed into the moderate Kamala Harris or Beto supporters and they have supporters online. Pete Buttigieg is another moderate with a large online presence.
So, first, there are no extreme left candidates running. Second, the extreme right candidates such as Delaney are so unpopular, they have to go on FOX News to find sympathetic listeners.
Great example of an unpopular fringe candidate who needs to go on Fox to find sympathetic listeners:
nan said:
That's possible, but Hillary was a moderate and there were huge arguments about her online and some of them are still going on. Many Hillary supporters have morphed into the moderate Kamala Harris or Beto supporters and they have supporters online. Pete Buttigieg is another moderate with a large online presence.
So, first, there are no extreme left candidates running. Second, the extreme right candidates such as Delaney are so unpopular, they have to go on FOX News to find sympathetic listeners.
There were arguments over Hillary due to her systematic, 30-year vilification by Republicans.
And I wasn't referring to extreme candidates, but rather extreme supporters, you know, the ones trawling the internet for fringe video sources and brawling on Twitter. The candidates are not doing that.
jimmurphy said:
There were arguments over Hillary due to her systematic, 30-year vilification by Republicans.
And I wasn't referring to extreme candidates, but rather extreme supporters, you know, the ones trawling the internet for fringe video sources and brawling on Twitter. The candidates are not doing that.
I'm not talking about the crazy Republican attacks on Democrats. Those are mostly just a bunch of horrible Republicans calling Democrats racist and sexist names, without discussion. I'm thinking more about the arguments about Hillary over her policies. She was not called a corporate warmonger for nothing. There were lots of discussions, including here on MOL, about Clinton's cozy relationship with Wall Street, regime change foreign policy and DNC corruption.
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Trump is starting to say too many upsetting things and the public can't take any more. Heard a call-in this morning which I think is going to be typical. He was a former Republican who recently withdrew from the party. Not sure who he will vote for but liked Biden. I think we are going to see a lot of this as Trump continues his crazy actions.