1 South is closed...

Saw this coming long ago. What'll be next for the space?

-s.


For a second I thought this was a traffic alert.


Crikey. That didn't take long. I'm shocked, shocked I tell you, given the multitude of gushing yelp reviews that made the place out to have like 50 michelin stars. 

Is it possible for a New American restaurant to succeed in South Orange?   


Smedley said:
Crikey. That didn't take long. I'm shocked, shocked I tell you, given the multitude of gushing yelp reviews that made the place out to have like 50 michelin stars. 
Is it possible for a New American restaurant to succeed in South Orange?   

 Fox and Falcon seems to be off to a strong start. It's not for everyone, but no place is.


There may not be room for two upscale American restaurants, especially given the sheer size of both spaces. Is there enough customer base to keep both places full enough to stay in business?

I know lots of people here bemoan this fact, but less expensive family friendly dining options seem to do much better in SOMA. The upscale places that have succeeded seem to be smaller like Lorena's and Arturo's.


Yeah F/F has a shot, time will tell.

Upon further review, I guess Gaslight has to be considered a successful NA restaurant, given its longevity. It takes a lot of flak, and I'm not a fan, but they've been there for almost 15 years I think, so they must be doing something right.   


Boccone South is packed Saturday evenings. It's one of the best restaurants in the area. I hope that we don't lose it if and when the the Blockbuster space is developed. 


Gaslight has many less expensive food options. Fox and Falcon currently has a very limited menu and a higher price point in general. 

Gaslight also offers some good German cuisine, which isn't common around here. 

I don't think they're in direct competition. It will be interesting to see if the new place going into Village Hall adversely affects either one.

I wasn't really familiar enough with the One South menu to know how it compared with either Gaslight or Fozzie's Falcon.


Pardon the ignorance, but '1 South' was where 'Above' used to be, correct?


mrincredible said:
Fozzie's Falcon.

 Not sure if this was deliberate or not, but I kind of want to call it that going forward.


ridski said:


mrincredible said:
Fozzie's Falcon.
 Not sure if this was deliberate or not, but I kind of want to call it that going forward.

 


basil said:
Pardon the ignorance, but '1 South' was where 'Above' used to be, correct?

 Yes


its too bad-a tough space to get to etc.  maybe the beer garden should go there.  no movement at the old town hall.


Completely deliberate. I get bored with reality sometimes. 

But I'd totally go to Fozzie's Falcon. 


The first time I went into Above, I thought "Oh, it's going to be a high-end event space."  I wonder if that function would survive better than the restaurant models they've been trying to follow.


I knew the restaurant consultant they had hired when it first reopened.  The owners pretty much ignored all advice given by him as well as the previous manager (When it was above).  

As pointed out, with such a large space you need to have a menu geared towards families.  Plus the outdoor space was wasted in the good weather considering their menu/bar options.  

The owners wanted some fancy restaurant thinking that only way they could recoup their investment and hoping people would come 6 nights a week spending high prices for mediocre food.  

Disappointing to say the least.  

Gaslight survives because it has options at all price points and some interesting choices (like the german dishes).  Service is decent and as long as you do not bring kids, it is fine.  

 


mikescott said:
The owners wanted some fancy restaurant thinking that only way they could recoup their investment and hoping people would come 6 nights a week spending high prices for mediocre food.  
Disappointing to say the least.   

 Sounds about right. I dropped in one time shortly after they opened, last spring I think, and I was immediately turned off by being charged $10 for an ordinary pint. That said caveat emptor about sitting down for a meal there (which I never did). 


I thought the owner of Gaslight has begrudgingly softened her open distaste for children after a frank conversation with Sheena. My understanding was Sheena gave her the low down on just how bad a reputation the Gaslight had/has as far as families with kids go.

Otherwise mikescott I think you're right on point.


sprout said:
The first time I went into Above, I thought "Oh, it's going to be a high-end event space."  I wonder if that function would survive better than the restaurant models they've been trying to follow.

 If memory serves that is one of the ideas behind the redeveloped Village Hall space.


Robert_Casotto said:
Gaslight?


Really?  

 What about It? It's a point of comparison.


In my limited experience at 1 South, owners' attitude (I'm guessing, as reflected through the actions of the surly and suspicious floor managers) was atrocious and quite anti-customer.  Fozzie's (Fox & Falcon) seem to be the quite the opposite.  This goes a long way with respect to repeat business and customer retention.


I only go to the Gaslight occasionally, but my take is that they super serve their regular customers.  Likely to the point of less-than-terrific service to the newbies/occasionals. But there's something to be said for that, and why they've been apparently successful for so long.  There's no way that any dining/drinking establishment can be everything to everybody -- just read these threads.

I've always thought that the path to success is to figure out a handful of things you do better than anyone else, and concentrate on those.  A menu with 6-7 starters and an equal number of entrees, all of them prepared with care and good ingredients is better than one that tries to check every box, and does half of them mediocre.

Give me that and a small but thoughtfully created list of wines by the glass, a similarly curated draft beer list and I'm good.  If the place wants to specialize in bourbon or scotch or another spirit, all the better.

I'm not in the business, so I'm sure I'm missing a lot about what it takes to be successful.  But as a customer I much prefer a shorter menu that is populated with winning dishes over a much longer one that only gives me a 50/50 chance of choosing well.


ml1 said:
But as a customer I much prefer a shorter menu that is populated with winning dishes over a much longer one that only gives me a 50/50 chance of choosing well.

 And please have at least one vegetarian option in each section (soups/apps/pasta/main courses, etc)


Put in something with the variety (foods and price points), quality and interesting beverage choices of a Coda and we’ll be there much more often.  One expensive burger as the midrange price point isn’t enough for large spaces with liquor licenses to support.


sprout said:


ml1 said:
But as a customer I much prefer a shorter menu that is populated with winning dishes over a much longer one that only gives me a 50/50 chance of choosing well.
 And please have at least one vegetarian option in each section (soups/apps/pasta/main courses, etc)

yes.  Being vegetarian-friendly helps with serving larger groups.


ml1 said:
A menu with 6-7 starters and an equal number of entrees, all of them prepared with care and good ingredients is better than one that tries to check every box, and does half of them mediocre.
Give me that and a small but thoughtfully created list of wines by the glass, a similarly curated draft beer list and I'm good.  If the place wants to specialize in bourbon or scotch or another spirit, all the better.

This is not personal or a judgement, merely an observation. I think this preference puts you in a small minority of restaurant patrons in this area. I think the wider preference is restaurants with more choices. 


mrincredible said:


ml1 said:
A menu with 6-7 starters and an equal number of entrees, all of them prepared with care and good ingredients is better than one that tries to check every box, and does half of them mediocre.
Give me that and a small but thoughtfully created list of wines by the glass, a similarly curated draft beer list and I'm good.  If the place wants to specialize in bourbon or scotch or another spirit, all the better.
This is not personal or a judgement, merely an observation. I think this preference puts you in a small minority of restaurant patrons in this area. I think the wider preference is restaurants with more choices. 

and then they complain that the food they ordered was mediocre for the price.  Virtually nobody can do 20-25 entrees all equally well.

I'm only suggesting that narrowing the market to appeal to people who appreciate what you do well, and then delivering on it is possibly a better plan than trying to appeal to everyone.  The Arturo's menu has 8 pasta dishes.  They're doing OK.


Fair enough but Arturo's is small and enjoys the mystique of exclusivity. I'm not sure their formula would translate to a place the size of One South. 

Would people want to go to Arturo's if it was easy to get into?  tongue rolleye 


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